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 Post subject: 5x5x5 Speedcubing
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:55 pm 
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Hey all,

I'm trying to get into speedcubing with the 5x5x5 but am unsure about solving methods. Right now I solve the centers, then the edges then solve the 3x3x3 there. There's alot of needless twisting though.

Any suggestions/solution methods out there?

Thanks

-Adam-

_________________
The first ten million years, they were the worst.
The second ten million years, they were the worst too.
The third ten million years I didn't like at all.
After that, I went into a bit of a decline.
<i>Marvin the Paranoid Android</i>


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:19 am 
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Nobody can beat Mr. Frank Morris so I think your best bet is http://www.bigcubes.com/

good luck


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:04 pm 
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...Is that a challenge?

_________________
The first ten million years, they were the worst.
The second ten million years, they were the worst too.
The third ten million years I didn't like at all.
After that, I went into a bit of a decline.
<i>Marvin the Paranoid Android</i>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:51 pm 
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Are there any other published methods for the 5x5?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:15 pm 
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i learned this method first....

http://jjorg.chem.unc.edu/personal/monr ... 5cube.html

the only thing is that it's not meant for speedcubing.
but one great thing about that site, is that it's very easy on the eyes as it's very image based rather than just the text algorithms.


if you think about it, it's the same - solve the centers first, then the edges, then like a 3x3x3.

frank's method seems to do a few pieces at a time (such as the edge pieces) whereas the above link is solved piece by piece. - but as with such a big cube, there's always room for cutting down moves, which i think frank did pretty well.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:06 pm 
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Mike, stop causing problems! :) I can and will be beaten sooner or later. No one can stay on top forever. Watch for Olivier and Ron later this month. They may show you!

Frank


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:19 am 
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Welcome to the forum Frank :D,

I must say I was rather surprised when I saw the video of you solving at 1:51:something and you used the rather lengthy and simple solution. As much as centers edges 3x3x3 makes sense to anyone picking it up for the first time, it hardly seems worth studying much beyond that. I have an applet that can solve the 5x5x5 in under 1 minute and it isn't turing all that fast, nor is it the same method we all use to solve the 5x5x5.

Being the fastest (currently) what sort of suggestions do you have?

Right now I'm stuck around 5 minutes. Best time is 4:33 average around 5:45.

Thanks and again, welcome

-Adam-

_________________
The first ten million years, they were the worst.
The second ten million years, they were the worst too.
The third ten million years I didn't like at all.
After that, I went into a bit of a decline.
<i>Marvin the Paranoid Android</i>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:33 pm 
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Quote:
Best time is 4:33 average around 5:45


Hey, anyone familliar with John Cage's music will know that 4:33 is a VERY good number. :wink: :wink:

Quinn


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:19 pm 
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Also, what brand/make of cube do you use Frank?

Apok


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:52 pm 
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Frank uses the rubiks.com 5x5


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:41 pm 
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As do I (preassembled). Could you guys give me some mechancal tips to help get my cube up to speed? Some sides are really loose, some are really tight. Should I lube it? I feel like i'd only do more harm with so many pieces involved.

Apok


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:48 pm 
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I have a mefferts 5x5 and it is not turning well at all. The pieces when speedcubing also lead to popping of some parts and even the center caps flying off..oh well at least my 5x5 has screws :)

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im back....after 18 months :X...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:06 pm 
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I thought about getting a Mefferetts lately, but heard about the issue with the center faces turning and lossening the whole side. Has anyone messed with an Eastsheen?

Apok


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:38 am 
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Hi everyone, thanks for the welcomes.

As far as tips go, really practice on getting your move count down as low as possible. Since the turning speed on the 5x5 is somewhat limited, and highly based on the quality (and luck) of your cube, the less moves the better. I don't happen to know off the top of my head how many moves I use, but I will take a count soon and get back to you on it. Also, a way to train to build your recognition speed, is to practice looking for certain color groups first. When I first started getting serious about the 5x5, I would only solve the white or yellow centers first, and for edges, only groups with white or yellow in them. In the long run, this limits your speed, but is good to get started. Another thing is... really try and learn some things on your own. I liken this to learning the F2L on the 3x3. I first learned the 42 basic algorithms, but noticed that my speed never really improved until I understood what I was doing. I attribute my speed on the centers to knowing what I am doing and why/how each turn affects the pieces. If you get stuck don't be afraid to ask though.

As far as improving the cube quality.... my best cubes have just been used a lot. When I break in a new cube, I lube it very often, say 2 or 3 times per week, and turn it alot. Not necessarily solving, but maybe just twisting and turning it while watching TV, or sitting in traffic. I don't know any ways to adjust the tension on the 5x5, but over time the sides even out. If you are feeling ambitious, you can try to mod the 5x5 by sanding down the wings a little, but I don't really recommend it. I know that Grant Tregay and Per Fredlund have done this, and it worked out well for them, but I have not had very good luck.

If anyone has any other questions, feel free to ask!

Frank


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:02 am 
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Quote:
just twisting and turning it while watching TV, or sitting in traffic


And I thought I was the only one!!!

Quinn, are you talking about the silent Symphony???

What cubes are allowed/restricted from competition? Also, where can I get an Eastsheen 5x5x5?

_________________
The first ten million years, they were the worst.
The second ten million years, they were the worst too.
The third ten million years I didn't like at all.
After that, I went into a bit of a decline.
<i>Marvin the Paranoid Android</i>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:12 am 
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All cubes are allowed in competition, with exception to the World Championships, in which only Rubik's brand products are allowed.

If you wish, you can purchase an eastsheen 5x5x5 from http://www.mefferts.com

Frank


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:14 pm 
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Quote:
Quinn, are you talking about the silent Symphony???


Yes I am! I am so glad someone picked up on that. As much as I dislike John Cage's "music," I applaud his originality and fastidiousness to his beliefs. When I say "music," I am of course refering to his: Concerto for Clarinet, Umbrella, and Radio station; Violent Seizures for Piano; and, my favorite, when he put a tape recorder inside a grand piano, pushed it down a flight of stairs, and wrote down what the recorder picked up. :P Not my cup of tea, but surely original.

Quinn

P.S. - Anyone on this forum like any Stravinsky?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:37 pm 
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so in WC only Rubik's products are allowed? what about a mefferts that has all it's tiles removed and stuck on with stickers? From what I know the dimensions are similar to the Rubik's 5x5

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im back....after 18 months :X...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:44 pm 
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Thanks Frank, I'll get to work.

Apok


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:12 pm 
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Okay, now I'm getting confused. Let see if I get this right.

There are 2 different mechanism's for the 5x5x5. First is the one from Rubik's.com and the second is Called Eastsheen and is available at Mefferts. I feel like the Eastsheen has a second title as well...

But where do the Olympic cubes fall in?

_________________
The first ten million years, they were the worst.
The second ten million years, they were the worst too.
The third ten million years I didn't like at all.
After that, I went into a bit of a decline.
<i>Marvin the Paranoid Android</i>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:36 pm 
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i believe the olympics cubes are bigger than the 5x5's? newcubes' ebay auction has a pic of the 6x6x6 mechanism.

but rubiks has their own, eastsheen and meffert's are two different mechanisms as well.

eastsheen are DIY kits... http://www.eastsheen.com.tw/eastsheen.htm mefferts is more preassembled (obviously) but very similar to eastsheens as opposed to the rubik's brand, in terms of pieces. meffert's is also a lot bigger than the eastsheen.

through my experience (i'm sure it'll be different per case) but i like the meffert's one as it's easy to turn. it came with tiles, which is always a plus for me (you just need to reglue them as it does tend to come off). but it does tend to pop, which is minus with speedcubers.

my rubik's was very stiff. but i have yet to lube it.

Image

eastsheen - i dunno. i hear alot of different things. it's great for making mods and building off of it. i also hear that if lubed properly it's a fav among speedcubers (i could be wrong though.) but for me it slides pretty smooth. but you really have to fine adjust it, which is purposely made for this reason - which i think is perfect.
Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:50 pm 
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Thanks for the details. I knew about the 6x6x6 auction (personally I'm twitching waiting for the 7x7x7 to finally appear magically in my hands) but was under the impression that Olympic cubes was its own line and had versions of the 2x2 up.

If there is a 5x5x5 Olympic cube, what is the mechanism like? (similar to the Eastsheen, Mefferts, or Rubiks, or completely different) And where could I get one assuming I had the finances currently?

_________________
The first ten million years, they were the worst.
The second ten million years, they were the worst too.
The third ten million years I didn't like at all.
After that, I went into a bit of a decline.
<i>Marvin the Paranoid Android</i>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:07 pm 
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i'd check out http://www.olympicube.com/

they'll have better details than me.

i'm in the same boat. waiting for them to mass produce them :)

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http://www.rockstargames.com/V/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:14 am 
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All I ever get when I go to that site is information about numbers of pieces and some pics. No information obvious about actually purchasing...

However, since I originally started this post for speedcubing and not for the 5x5x5 in general, lets try to get back on that topic. I may start a new thread in a couple days to discuss the 5x5x5 mechs and variations etc. feel free to do the same if you get to it first.

Frank, you mentioned counting your moves...I seem to be landing in the upper 200's (250-289ish) and am collecting stats to find out my average. What about the rest of you?

_________________
The first ten million years, they were the worst.
The second ten million years, they were the worst too.
The third ten million years I didn't like at all.
After that, I went into a bit of a decline.
<i>Marvin the Paranoid Android</i>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:34 am 
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skeneegee wrote:
Nobody can beat Mr. Frank Morris so I think your best bet is http://www.bigcubes.com/

good luck



lol true true wronginthehead... but i've been using that link skeneegee posted... wow, i don't have everything down pact yet, but i can see my time has gone down alot. just using his center's method. i'm not a speedcuber, but still chopping down 30-60 seconds or so is still quite a lot of time. once i learn his edges moves, i'm sure i'll be getting consistent times way below 5 minutes... (mind you i'm getting ~2 minute times for a 3x3x3).

btw - i'm using the LE 5x5x5 from Meffert's. i've had it for a little over 2 years - my first cube! so it's pretty loose and easy to twist (although it does pop :( )

_________________
http://www.rockstargames.com/V/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:17 pm 
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I did a few solves, and all of them used around 220 moves. I wasn't trying to save moves or anything, so I imagine I could do better than this. Doesn't seem to bad for a speedsolve though.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:27 pm 
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The Eastsheen cubes (both master and proffessor) are for sale at Mefferts. They are the ones that are 6cmx6cmx6cm. I'm thinking about getting one as my rubik's prof. is letting me down.

The last time I counted, my # of moves was around 330-350 moves, mostly edge work. Gotta work on that bit, but I am satisfied with my center solve times and center number of moves. My time is just bad b/c I cannot seem to get my cube to move smoothly. Ah well, off to practice...

Apok


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:13 pm 
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I just did move count solves for the 5x5 and also broke up the steps (centers/edges/segmented 3x3) and this is what I got, which is typical for me.

1. 46/90/49 => 185

The edges step took a bit more turns than I would have expected. The 3x3 solve had an obivous 2x2 block in 4 turns and I used full zb on it so it sould have been a few turns shorter as well. The edges step had parity too. I counted slice turns like (R'L) as a single turn though.

If I did 2 turns per second than I would have had a time of 1:32.50 which is outragous for 5x5. I think if I was going full speed I would have gotten ~2:30 on it becasue of the parity.

2. 49/75/53 => 177

This was without edge parity and in fact on the previous solve 75 is what I would have gotten on edges before the parity alg execution. 53 is unfortunate for the final solve since I had to do a 3-cycle (with 1 turn cancellation). The centers step was pretty good I think, so it balenced out.

The difference I have with Frank, is that my centers step is much slower, I use zb on the finish, and I use a very different edges method which involves fixing centers after every transaction. What I lack is recognition.


-Doug

_________________
averages => 2x2 - 10.02, 3x3 - 22.16, 4x4 - 1:40.63, 5x5 - 2:22.60
single attempts => 4x4 - 1:21.78, 5x5 - 2:05.11, magic - 1.38, master magic - 5.03


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:43 am 
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Quinn Lewis wrote:
P.S. - Anyone on this forum like any Stravinsky?


Had to study it at A level but didn't like it.

Now if we're talking about Debussy...


Anyhoo, you can always adapt K4 to the 5x5x5 (snkenjoi.com/k4), but I've changed the method a bit since it's been put online, I solve the edges more like F2L now :). I'm getting about 3 mins on the 5x5x5.

Or you could use the cage method. But I think the centres are sucky :)

~Thom


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:06 pm 
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Quinn wrote: P.S.- Anyone on this forum like any Stravinsky?

I like all that I've heard by Stravinsky (CD with Evgeny Kissin playing part of Petrouchka on piano :shock: :shock: :shock: !!!)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:07 am 
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I'm not sure I've heard any Stravinsky. I recently rediscovered a song by Aram Khachaturian that I may use for a solution video of my own if I ever get a video camera. I think it would make a great parody of all those "solving the cube in 2.93 seconds" stuff they have on youtube. :lol: Has Stavinsky's music appeared in any movies at all? L8r.


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