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 Post subject: Dayan Gem VII jumble effect
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:39 pm 
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I found a possible effect of jumbling the Dayan Gem VII and was wondering if this is just me looking at the puzzle oddly or if this is real. I was able to solve a jumble-scrambled puzzle to the state where all but two hex-corners were solved. I labeled them A and B. The rest of the puzzle is solved:

Attachment:
dgviiAB.jpg
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Of course you can place them into the proper positions by a 180 deg rotation of their common hex face. Here is the result of that: I labeled them with upside down A and B:

Attachment:
dgviBA.jpg
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You can ignore the square corners and unattached triangles.

After the 180deg twist, you have a pair of edges([white/green, white/pink] and [white/red, white/aqua]) that are in their correct orbits but in the wrong order. A few jumbles can swap them with each other within their orbits, then a fix of the square corners and unattached triangles - quite a bit of work to swap two corners with each other.

That first image is so odd to me because all the edges are in the proper orbits and proper order but the puzzle still requires jumbling moves to solve. Is there a way to solve this state by just swapping the hex-corners with each other?


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 Post subject: Re: Dayan Gem VII jumble effect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:05 pm 
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rplass wrote:
That first image is so odd to me because all the edges are in the proper orbits and proper order but the puzzle still requires jumbling moves to solve. Is there a way to solve this state by just swapping the hex-corners with each other?
I can't test this right now, but what if you 3-cycled one of the bad hex corners into position with two "correct" hex corners and then cycled the second bad hex corner into place using the two previously disturbed hex corners? That would be two 3-cycles and have the effect of swapping and possibly twisting one or both of the two bad hex corners. It might take a bunch of setup moves.

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 Post subject: Re: Dayan Gem VII jumble effect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:55 pm 
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Hi Pete , that's exactly what I tried to do. Unfortunately it did not work.

However, after reading this post: viewtopic.php?p=310994#p310994 where Eliasthecollector93 mentioned a helicopter cube, I think I figured out how to solve the situation:

The 2nd image above, where the corners are in the correct positions is equivalent to:

Attachment:
heli.jpg
heli.jpg [ 55.39 KiB | Viewed 686 times ]


and anyone familiar with a helicopter cube ought to be able to solve that state. The square corners and unattached triangles luckily solve themselves and don't require any other work.

So there is a way to get out of the state shown in that first picture without jumbling.

I think the Dayan Gem VII is like a supercube of the helicopter cube, in the sense that the triangular "center" pieces of the helicopter cube now have a second color on them making them uninterchangable.


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 Post subject: Re: Dayan Gem VII jumble effect
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:06 am 
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rplass wrote:
I think the Dayan Gem VII is like a supercube of the helicopter cube, in the sense that the triangular "center" pieces of the helicopter cube now have a second color on them making them uninterchangable.
I can now say that I've seen the case in you first picture up close during a non-jumbling solve. rline (Twisty Puzzling on YouTube) includes a nice fix for this case in his Dayan Gem VII (7) Tutorial with Jumbling!. It is about half-way through the "Hex Corners" sub-video, for anyone who wants to just watch that part.

I'm still struggling to develop a solid mental model of the Dayan Gem VII. I suppose a Helicopter Cube is as good as anything, given the 180° turns of the hexagonal faces. I think some people have taken right to it, but I have found it very challenging.

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 Post subject: Re: Dayan Gem VII jumble effect
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:37 am 
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I did met this situation before. I forgot how to fix it. I did scramble it by jumbling moves. I think this may be because one of the hexagonal face is wrong. It should turn 180 degree one more time.


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 Post subject: Re: Dayan Gem VII jumble effect
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:40 am 
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The gem 7 is a shape mod of an unbandaged helicopter cube.

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 Post subject: Re: Dayan Gem VII jumble effect
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:45 am 
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I solve it exactly like a helicopter!
Sory for all the photos!


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 Post subject: Re: Dayan Gem VII jumble effect
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:04 am 
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E-Cubes Designer X wrote:
The gem 7 is a shape mod of an unbandaged helicopter cube.

Eliasthecollector93 wrote:
I solve it exactly like a helicopter!Sory for all the photos!

Thanks to both of you, that is very helpful!

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