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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:35 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
My first design.
It's bandaged 3 with an additional 2x2x1 block.
Name : bandaged 3+

Attachment:

bandaged3p.jpg [ 66.91 KiB | Viewed 5846 times ]

I cannot solve it , not yet.

Try it. Only one difference to bandaged 3, but much harder.
Corners are able turn and permute.
Edges are able flip and permute.
Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:58 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Andrea,

Finally someone else is playing.. and a really interesting little mid weight puzzle too. I solved it!
[
Stage 1 (no setup)
1. [Yellow U, Red F]:Solve blocks> except red, blue, yellow (leave in LL).
2. Solve E edges (by doing Uw twists and taking advantage of the slot in D).
3. Orientate LL edges using last E slot- relatively intuitively- no algs.
EDIT: I will elaborate on the final sequence: [with Blue F, Yellow U] (Last flipped edge in UL red, blue, yellow block upside down in FRD slot):
R U2 R' F' U' F This is an intuitive twist, so the sequence is just instructions.
4. L U L' U L U2 L' (or mirror with Blue as F) to place red/yellow edge.

Stage 2 (completed under setup DF')
5. [setup D F'] Place corners with a twist (I only solved it once, I need to check if I can 3cycle them).
EDIT: I just found that there was a 3cycle and I got lucky. So.. I have a 2 corner adjacent swap:
While in the setup [D F'] the swap is of URF<>URB: [F' U2 F] [(R2 U R2 U' R2) U'D (R2 U' R2 U R2) D'] [F' U2 F] ends still in the setup [F D']
6. Orientate corners and place edges with known Sune combos.
7. Undo setup [F D']
]

Much fun, Thankyou Andrea!

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

Last edited by Burgo on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:16 am

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:51 pm
Location: Bedford, England
I would join in, but I'm not for 2 reasons -

1 - My spudger still hasn't arrived, so it's a hassle swapping the pieces around - i have to use a sharp knife at the moment, and i'm going to end up damaging either the puzzle or myself using it often

2 - I'm not very good at solving bandage puzzles as yet - i struggle with even the easiest ones

_________________

Latest videos: Unboxing Burgo's incredible Crazy 2 Face B4 kit, Calvins 2x4x6

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:40 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
I use a stencil knife with an old blunt blade (just never put your fingers in front of the cutting edge), I go for a corner and lift it then get a screwdriver under it, but mine has got looser now, so generally all I need to do is get a corner up and off it comes.

I honestly don't know if it's practice or intuition that makes a good bandaged puzzle solver, I think I've always had the intuition, but one thing's for sure, it pushes you to use everything you have in every way possible, and this will help you to grow more of a complete understanding of all your methods.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:57 am

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
martywolfman wrote:
2 - I'm not very good at solving bandage puzzles as yet - i struggle with even the easiest ones

I'm not very good at any twisty puzzles compared to Andrea, Burgo and Rline! Actually I'm not particularly good in general! But if you keep looking at the list that Burgo is kindly updating and start easy and work through them then you really do seem to get a good training in them. I'm having a great time and I'm making sure I solve each one multiple times to prove I really understand each one. This has really been an absolute bargain of a puzzle!

Burgo - are you going to be "official keeper of the list" and rate Andrea's (and others) contributions and add them to your difficulty rating post? Effectively you are providing me with my homework list!!

As for removing the tiles - I'm using a really tiny pocket knife - it works perfectly.

_________________
Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:59 am

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
Andrea wrote:

did you try all designs from Burgo? My next is The Bandaged Loop.

Cheers,
Andrea

No, I did not try the designs made by Burgo.
I am very busy with a Shapeways puzzle series.
I'm building (assembling, dyeing, stickering, breaking in) three puzzles at once.
The smallest is the hardest: A Micro Master Pentultimate from Greg (Gregoire Pfennig).
When I had assembled it first, it felt like a solid block of nylon.
It took 20 minutes before I could turn the first face.
Given this start position, it doen't turn so badly now (after a few hours of turning, which is my way of tumbling).
It is by far the hardest puzzle building challenge ever for my 66 years old eyes and hands!
(I wrote first "was the hardest", but then thought about stickering the micro stickers. I have ordered glasses with magnifying lenses and I hope I can manage to glue the tiny stickers on with super glue)

Yes, I solved the Camouflage 3x3x3 (within a few hours after arrival). (It should be clear when you read my posts in the Camouflage threads) I needed a while to understand the nature of the Camouflage (i.e. that it is a bandaged /extended 4x4x4). After that I could solve it immediately and it was easier for me than the AI. I used the same (two) move sequences to construct swaps and 3-cycles of pieces.
As I said before, you should solve the AI (or at least the C4U 3x3x6) before the Camouflage.
I think that it is quite natural that we do not see many posts in the Camouflage solving thread, given the fact that it is easy enough solving it with AI methods.
A tutorial or video will be not so easy, because there are (probably) 24 different colour schemes around.

Back to the Bandaged 3x3x3: It is absolutely amazing how creative and productive Burgo and you are.
What does Kevin's signature say? "Hopelessly addicted to puzzles!!"

@Burgo: I think it is mostly due to your outstanding visual memory that you are so good at solving bandaged puzzles of all kinds. It is hard for us less gifted to follow your speed.

_________________

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:04 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi friends,

Burgo: thank you for sharing your solution method. So fast, I'm impressed.
The bandaged 3+ :

Put the white face to the left and blue is top. Then turn:
[spoiler]
U' R2 U' R'

you get this:
Attachment:

bandaged3ps.jpg [ 26.25 KiB | Viewed 5697 times ]

This is the startposition for many posibilities.
[spoiler]
CPS ( L' U R U' L U R' U') and Sunes
Strategy
Memorize this. Bulid left 3x2x1 block.
Bulild the right 2x3x1 block of two 2x1x1 bars and the yellow/orange piece inside.
Build the blue/yellow/orange block on top ( after U2 it is on correct place)

It's not too hard, but a little bit harder and very different to the bandaged 3.
Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:41 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Andrea,
I just made another few solves and noticed that I got lucky on my first solve, so I edited my method with a sequence for permuting corners. I also added a more clear way to finish the orientation of the edges because I suspect that it might not be as intuitive for others.

I will try solving it with your method.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:58 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Burgo and other

Some additional sequences for my bandaged 3+ method.

Burgo wrote:
I will try solving it with your method.

I hope my description was clear enough. I had some solves with this method.

(U M') x 4 flip 4 edges
(U' M') x 4 flip 4 edges
both together flip u/l u/r edge.

This sequence is not necessary:
LR' F L'R U2 LR' F L' R = 3 cycle of edges with flipping.
It can replaces through left and right sune.

A little bit hard is the turning of corners because the sune turns 3 corners in the same direction.

In my opinion the bandaged 3 is a little bit like Bermuda Mercury and
the bandaged 3+ is a little bit like Bermuda Venus.
Much fun with this.

Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:29 pm

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Friends,

Today I will reveal a new idea: Flying Carpets. The puzzle will be presented in the scrambled state for you to solve.
EDIT (for clarity):
This is a new experimental concept that I am trying:

My intention is that this puzzle isnâ€™t about `solving to a known state`. I intend it to be a bit more like an `assembly puzzle + twisty puzzle` where the solved state is hidden, or ambiguous, and is part of the concept. Where a particular solved `carpet pattern` is not important, nor is it `the solution`. Thatâ€™s why it has been given in a scrambled state. The reason for 4 photographs is only to avoid confusion of the configuration. The solution is the same as other twisty puzzles: `All faces are one colour (untiled being neutral in this case)`. Note: The colours of the faces, determined by the centres, should be obvious.

In this case, letâ€™s just give it a few weeks, or enough time for the thread to get away from the original post before we post `patterns for the carpets`. In the end I think it doesn't matter if states are known, because it affects the challenge very little, itâ€™s more of a philosophical point. After a few weeks I would expect that it would be OK to discuss specific patterns and numbers of reachable states, etc. I certainly donâ€™t want to discourage this conversation, in time.

Even I donâ€™t know the original state: I have a pretty good idea of the original state, but when I was designing it I made a few final alterations, followed by scrambles until I found `a perfect fit`, then I photographed it and kept it that way.. I never returned it and don't remember `exactly` which one it is (because I tried quite a few subtle changes). The solved state is any pattern (and that's why I didn't record it and intentionally tried to forget it). So Iâ€™m actually in the same boat as everybody else.
Attachment:

Flying Carpets.jpg [ 1.29 MiB | Viewed 5637 times ]
After many hours of twisting I have still been unable to solve the Flying Carpets (The best I have got is everything except 2 corners unorientated, and I have got there a few times). It reminded me of a twisty puzzle version of the Bedlam Cube. So I unbandaged the troublemaker to make Unbandaged Flying Carpets, so that the puzzle is accessible to a wider audience. In this state it took much less effort to solve and made for an interesting puzzle. The concept is still the same:
Attachment:

Unbandaged Flying Carpets.jpg [ 1.28 MiB | Viewed 5516 times ]
@Andrea, from your setup position on the Bandaged 3+ you can use FURU'R'F' or (M'U)x3 U (MU)x3 U to flip edges as well. It's also not necessary that the Sune must go in the same direction? I've had quite a few cases where this is so, with the various bandaging, but your setup for this cube is OK. I liked solving with your method, but it's hard to remember the pattern, I think my way might be easier this time. Did you notice the similarities between my method for the Bandaged 3+ and my revised Bandaged-3 method?

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

Last edited by Burgo on Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:11 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:05 am

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:52 am
Edited to no longer spoil the fun.

Last edited by wolf_II on Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:20 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Why are you posting a `possible solution`? How did you come by it? Or how do you know it's correct? If you are solving to it, great. I don't want to stop the fun, or sound aggressive , but you must see that it `could` spoil, or confuse (without any qualification of how it was derived).

PS If you `can` solve to it, it is a solution. I would like to know how many states are reachable in the end though.

EDIT (for clarity):
I want to apologise to Wolf_II because I really didn't want my post to sound aggressive. But, in this case, I buried the format for a reason, I didn't want people to be `solving to a known state`, (which Iâ€™m not sure if his state was a reachable state or not). Itâ€™s my fault because I didnâ€™t clarify my intentions in the original post.

I hope you can see that if `the catâ€™s out of the bag` with that concept, then the puzzle is a different challenge. Ultimately it will be, and all the possible solutions will be known, but for the start (a few weeks) if we can keep it a bit of a secret it would be good (only because we canâ€™t hide spoiler photos).

It was the statement `Possible Solution` that I didn't understand. He didnâ€™t write: `I solved it` or `I got to this solution by `this means`. I just didn't understand his post and my confusion sounded like scalding. When I said I didnâ€™t want to stop the fun, I meant his fun too. I want to encourage solutions, itâ€™s a solving thread afterall.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

Last edited by Burgo on Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:45 am

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:51 pm
Location: Bedford, England
Ok so I've finally received my spudger so i can add and remove pieces without too much danger of me requiring hospital treatment, and thought i'd join the fun

I've tried a couple of the easy designs and have spent most of the day fiddling with them, and can reliably solve a couple of them now (with a little help from rline )

and now i've created this:

I found it difficult even to scramble, and solving it is basically impossible for me at them moment - I don't know if any others wish to try it.
I guess it should have a name - lets go with the only thing i could come up with - Mr T (because there are 2 T shapes on it )

_________________

Latest videos: Unboxing Burgo's incredible Crazy 2 Face B4 kit, Calvins 2x4x6

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:40 pm

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:51 pm
Location: Bedford, England
Well i appear to have 'wasted' my entire Saturday on these, but i have figured out (with a little help) how to do the 2-bar 4, 3 Slices, Fuse Cube, Big Block, and stalactites. i would have tried the 1x1x3 block but i can't seem to find that in this thread? If anyone can point me to that i'd be grateful... i hope i haven't just missd it in the thread

I managed to solve the stalactites all by myself using what i'd learned, which is always nice - although i did have a brief panic attack when i though i had solved it, but it turned out i had 2 corners rotated. As it turned out though that wasn't too difficult to fix.

very fun day!

_________________

Latest videos: Unboxing Burgo's incredible Crazy 2 Face B4 kit, Calvins 2x4x6

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:04 pm

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
I have amended my Flying Carpets post (and my response to Wolf_II) to clarify my intentions and avoid confusion.

Personally, Iâ€™m having a lot of trouble solving it, and in my attempt to make it `hard enough` I might have overdone it!! But it definately has `the feel` to it that I wanted, it doesn't `feel` like a twisty puzzle at all, more like an assembly puzzle.

Sorry Martywolfman I'm too preoccupied to try your puzzle at the moment! But the 1x1x3 block just has a [corner, edge, corner] bandaged into a 1x1x3 block.

EDIT: I made a second edit to the Flying Carpets^^ to add an easier unbandaged version as well.
Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:44 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Martywolfman,

I tried your Mr T this afternoon. I might have to rename the thread ratemypuzzledotcom .. It is almost unscramblable, but sometimes those have an interest factor all of their own. My `Stalagmites and Stalactites` is a bit like that. It's kind of on the easy end and shares similar properties to my 3 Bar & 3 Bar Clock.

[ I had to find a 3cycle for the corners (and a corner-edge block / edge 2+2swap):
URB>DRF>DLF [Red U, White F]: U (R2 U R2 U' R2) D (R2 U R2 U' R2) D'U'
ULB<>URB + UB<>UF [Red U, White F]: U (R2 U R2 U' R2) U'D (R2 U' R2 U R2) U'D'
And if you understand the kind of thing I'm doing with the corner 3cycle you can untangle and permute your blocks.
The edges you can just do with [Red U, White F]: M' U2 M U2.
]

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:37 am

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:51 pm
Location: Bedford, England
Burgo wrote:
I But the 1x1x3 block just has a [corner, edge, corner] bandaged into a 1x1x3 block.

I suspected that was the case, but wasn't entirely certain, thanks. In that case i can already solve that, as it's just one half of the Siamese cube i have, which i can already solve.

I'm struggling with the unbandaged big block at the moment. I'm struggling to permute the corners properly. I'm assuming the unbadaged part of the big block must come into play somehow, but it's frustrating me...for now...

I can get 2 in easily enough, but the four remaining aren't in a position that will swap with the algorithms i know currently. I have got it down to 3 on one occasion, more luck, trial and error than anything else, but then they all got moved again while trying to solve the remaining 3, hehe.

_________________

Latest videos: Unboxing Burgo's incredible Crazy 2 Face B4 kit, Calvins 2x4x6

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:01 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
These puzzles are very interesting:
bandaged fortress,
double block,
unbandaged big block

Now, I try the Alcatraz.
OMG , this is extremely hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:37 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Andrea,

Yes, Alcatraz is in my `very hard` difficulty rating, if you make one of those you know what you're in for . Did you notice I made a difficulty rating at the start of the first post in the thread? To begin, it's good to just try to move between the 3 states in the pictures, that is a pretty decent challenge in itself, and it will give you a good feel for the properties of the puzzle. The name suits it, yes? Also, it's built on a 2x2x2 rock .

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:56 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Burgo,

Quote:
Did you notice I made a difficulty rating at the start of the first post in the thread?

Yes,I read the difficult rating. Today my first time, I have enough courage to get one of the difficult.

Quote:
To begin, it's good to just try to move between the 3 states in the pictures

Which pictures, which states ?
In the posting I saw only variants of Alcatraz.

Quote:
The name suits it, yes? Also, it's built on a 2x2x2 rock

Yes. Perfect name for this.

Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:10 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Andrea wrote:
Which pictures, which states ?
In the posting I saw only variants of Alcatraz.

It has 3 configuration variants that I have called Alcatraz, Alcatraz Lockdown and Alcatraz Solitary. If you ignore the colours and just move between the states (the patterns of the blocks), it is a good way to become familiar with the puzzle. They are 3 different puzzles, but they have the same configuration of blocks when uncoloured. The difficulty increases when you have to make the harder state.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:19 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Burgo,

Quote:
It has 3 configuration variants that I have called Alcatraz, Alcatraz Lockdown and Alcatraz Solitary.

Yes, I saw this.

[spoiler]
(F2R2)*3
transforms to the first variant.
LR'L
transforms to the third variant.

Ok , now I know what you mean.
Thank you.

Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:23 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Have a closer look at the variants . There is MUCH more to twisting between the 3 `shape patterns` than those simple sequences! It is actually quite difficult, much more than it first appears.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:07 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
Burgo wrote:
Puzzle List and Difficulty Rating

A bit harder (use known sequences creatively):
Stalactites, Unbandaged Big Block,

I knew I would come unstuck soon! I have solved all the easy ones on Burgo's list and with trepidation started on the "bit harder" ones. To my huge relief I even managed Stalactites! Riding this tidal wave of success, I decided to try Unbandaged Big Block and crashed to a halt!

I initially thought to reduce to the Big Block and then solve in the same way. BUT the parities caused by the reduction are proving rather tough! Initially tried my Big block system, position corners, orient corners with SUNE then do adjacent and opposite edge swaps to complete the puzzle - FAILED!!!

Tried the edges first method and then could not permute corners (much less orient them).

Run out of ideas just now! Not really experienced at this! My aim has always been to learn as few algorithms as possible! So I wanted to use what I already had but doesn't seem possible just now! Any gentle hints how I can adapt an existing algorithm as Burgo first suggested?

_________________
Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:22 am

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:51 pm
Location: Bedford, England
Haha. identical to what happened to me . There I was thinking i was getting good at them, then bam, one i can't figure out at all at the moment, the unbandaged big block. I had exactly the same plan to solve it too (because it worked for the stalactites!)

_________________

Latest videos: Unboxing Burgo's incredible Crazy 2 Face B4 kit, Calvins 2x4x6

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:35 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Unbandaged Big Block sufferers !

If you want a hint (careful, each line will reveal a larger hint):
[ You have to use the unbandaged part to accomplish your goals.
(It wasn't there before, it must have made the change possible).
Being a corner issue, you need to move corners.
Do something you know in a way that doesn't include the unbandaged block, and then rebuild it: including the unbandaged block this time.
]

If you want a solution:
[ This is what I did, probably not real efficient, but it worked.
2x2x2 block in DBL, unbandaged 1x2x2 block in DFL] (swaps 2 corners on UR):
(RUR'U')x3 -------(F2L algo to remove DRF corner)
RU R'U R U2 R' ---(Sune to reorientate the removed corner)
U' -----------------(setup)
F'UF U2 F'UF -----(F2L algo to reinsert DRF corner)
Another way: (R'FRF')x3 (RUR'U')x3 generates a 3cycle [UBR>UFL>UBL]
Depends what you're used to, if you know F2L you might like the first one, if you prefer EPS you might like the second one.
]

Kevin, if you can't orientate the corners with 2 faces I put a little doc together for you, and anyone else who chooses to read it, it's about the versatility of Sune. It explains how to use Sune to permute edges, pure and impure & orientate corners, pure and impure & orientate LL edges and how to use it to build commutators: https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=F ... Ao60JDY47g

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:06 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi friends,
The unbandaged big block, I solve the corners with (upside down) CPS like a bermuda neptune. I flip the edges like "lars petrus" method. All other pieces like big block.

Turn corners with sunes is an important technique. It is described here:http://lar5.com/cube/fas6.html

But there is a better description in net, but i don't find it.
I memorized : if 4 corners are turned put the yellow(color of up face) faces to the left.
If 2 corners are turned put the yellow face to front.
Make a sune.
After this , three corners are turned.
Many crazy cubes, bermuda cubes, bandaged cubes, I solved with this technique.
This is an important basic for puzzlers.

But I'm desperate with the alcatraz. I tried many hours to find sequences.
I solved the alcatraz with random .

The problems:
Two corners are turned.
Three corners are permuted.

Solve the 2x1x1 blocks is not the problem. Flip two edges, or turn 3 corners is not a problem.

The alcatraz is a monster. I cannot solve it.

Cheers,
Andrea

PS:
I saw, that Burgo posted a similar link.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:30 am

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:51 pm
Location: Bedford, England
burgo - the first two lines of hints are exactly what i already assumed, and have been trying - IT just hasn't helped me solve it yet. I didnt read any more. i will try to figure it again later

_________________

Latest videos: Unboxing Burgo's incredible Crazy 2 Face B4 kit, Calvins 2x4x6

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:56 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
Burgo,

Thanks for the progressive hints! I hope I will have time to try it again tomorrow!
Thanks for the document - I have downloaded it but not looked at it yet! Really would prefer to work it out myself but I suspect that being just a junior/beginner at cubes, I may need the help you have provided!!

This is all a whole lot of fun!!

_________________
Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:13 pm

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi friends,

I solved Burgo's Alcatraz.
Most difficult was to turn 2 corners.
This small nice sequence turns two corners:
[spoiler
U' R U R' U F U' R2 F' R F R F' U' R' U R
U' R U R' U F U' R2 F' R F R U' R' U R U F' U'

]
Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:27 pm

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi friends,
36 movements is too much.
I reduced the sequence to 12 movements.
But this sequence makes a 3cycle of corners , too.
So it's recommended to turn the corners at first, then permute the corners.

The new sequence:
[spoiler
R' U' R U F U' R' U R U F' U'
]

Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:41 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
Burgo wrote:
Kevin, if you can't orientate the corners with 2 faces I put a little doc together for you, and anyone else who chooses to read it, it's about the versatility of Sune. It explains how to use Sune to permute edges, pure and impure & orientate corners, pure and impure & orientate LL edges and how to use it to build commutators: https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=F ... Ao60JDY47g

Hi Burgo,

Still working on this blasted cube!
I did look at your document - really nicely produced and I was immensely pleased to see that all the things you can do with SUNE and Anti SUNE were already in my repertoire!

At the moment my problem is not the orientation of the corners. I can do this with ease in a matter of seconds - I actually can't get to the point where I need to orient them! At the moment I am actually trying to permute the corners. I have 3 or 4 techniques to do it and all but one requires there to be 2 opposite unbandaged faces. The one that I use that uses 2 adjacent unbandaged faces is proving impossible for me because it swaps 2 pairs of 2 corners. I am fairly sure that it should be possible to do the sequence 2 or 3 times in a row to get what I need but I'm finding too many pieces move each time to work out a plan!!

Hopefully I'll get it "sune"

_________________
Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:16 pm

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Andrea,

Congratulations! I will post my Solution for Alcatraz (it isn't refined yet: by finding critical moves and cropping the algs- so please excuse any clunks- it's just what I found `raw`):

[ Standard Alcatraz (picture 1) > Alcatraz Lockdown Functionality (picture 3): F R U' R' U R' F R'
Alcatraz Lockdown Functionality (picture 3) > Alcatraz Lockdown (picture 2): (F2 R2)x3
Alcatraz Lockdown Functionality (picture 3) > Alcatraz Solitary (picture 4): R F2 U' R U'

All sequences from the Standard Alcatraz configuration [Green F, Orange R, Yellow U]
Step 0: 1x1x2 blocks must be placed in a 3cyclable state (intuitive).
Step 1: 3cycle corners: (R2 F2 R2) F U F2 U' F' R' F2 R F U F2 U' F'
Step 2: 3cycle 1x1x2 blocks: (R' F' U F U' F R' F) (R F' R U' R U R' F')
Step 3: Orientate 2 edges: (R2 F2 R2) (F U F2 U' R') (F' U' R2 U R) (F2 R2 F2)
Step 4: Orientate 2 corners [UR]: [(U'RUR')(UF'U'F) (R2 F2 R2)] (F U F2 U' R2 F' R U F U' R F') [R' (UF'U'F)(R'FRF') R]
& mirrored [UF]: [(UF'U'F)(U'RUR') (F2 R2 F2)] (R' U' R2 U F2 R F' U' R' U F' R) [F (U'RUR')(FR'F'R) F']
]

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:12 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
I think it's time to post my Bandaged Fortress method too (My Alcatraz method is the last post on page 2):

[ First I will put down some edge 3cycles that I found, then I will put the edge flipping cycle. During the solve it's practical to set up and get the edge flipping done as a priority, and then cycle the correctly orientated edges to finish.

-RED- This is my main and my finisher.
Edge 3cycle (UB>UF>DF)[Green F, Yellow U]: (F2 R D2 L2) U2 (L2 D2 R' F2) R2 F2 R2
Mirror (UB>UF>DF)[Orange F, Yellow U]: (F2 L' D2 R2) U2 (R2 D2 L F2) L2 F2 L2

-BLUE- This moves edges between my main cycles (by exchanging through the green/orgnge position).
Edge 3cycle (DR>UR>FR)[Green F, Yellow U]: (F2 R D2 L2) U [(B2 U2)x3] U (L2 D2 R F2)
Mirror (DL>UL>FL)[Orange F, Yellow U]: (F2 L' D2 R2) U' [(B2 U2)x3] U' (R2 D2 L' F2) The bold determines the direction of the 3cycle.

-GREEN- Edge Flipping is conducted through exchanging between UL & UB positions with a 2+2 swap, effectively flipping the two edges in those positions:
2+2 swap (UL & UB + FR<>UR)[Green F, Yellow U]: F2 R D2 L2 U B2 U2 B [(L2 B2)x3] B' U2 B2 U' L2 D2 R' F2

This trivial and handy 2+2 swap (I use to break a situation of `2 swaps in each` main -RED- 3cycle if I get that):
2+2 swap (UF<>DF + UR<>DR)[Green F, Yellow U]: (F2 R2)x3
]
Attachment:

Bandaged Fortress.jpg [ 362.66 KiB | Viewed 6136 times ]
Together, these sequences will solve the puzzle.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

Last edited by Burgo on Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:19 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Burgo,
thank you for posting your Alcatraz method.

In us solving methods turning corners is the most hard part.

My solving method:
first orientate corners, I posted the sequence.
Exchanging 2 2x1x1 bars changes the oriantation of two corners.
A 3cycle of bars doesn't change it.

swap 2 bars and 2 edges:

U' R U R' U F U' R2 F' R F R F' U' R' U R

3 cycle of bars:

U' R U R' U F U' R' F' U' R U F' U F U'

It differs in the middle of sequence.

Put all upper pieces to down ( Burgo's functionality picture)
R' F' U F U' F R' F

After this you can put the pieces up again with the mirrored inverted sequence, then 3 bars and corners are permuted.
( R F' R U' R U R')

(edit)
If 3 corners are turned in the same direction you can turn 3 corners with this sequence:
U F' U' F2 R' F' R2 U' R' U

This sequence flipps two edges. If you turn it twice, only 3 corners are turned. The basis of this sequence is : turn the middle bar out and reinsert it from different direction.

Then make the 3 cycle posted above. This causes a 3cycle of corners.

Burgo: your method is better I think.

Cheers,
Andrea

PS: I will post my bandaged fortress method, too.

(edit)
Quote:

No. Your sequences are easier and shorter than mine, excluding the turning of two corners. Perhaps my corner turning is a nice sequence.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:05 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Unsolve the bandaged fortress !
( scramble)

I found a nice way to scramble the bandaged fortress :
I post without spoiler , because it's not a solution

(edit)
I had forgotten to describe the start position.
Top face is white, front face is red !
( the fortress looks like a table)

Turn the following sequence one or more time.
Replace the 'x' with 1 or 3.
e.G
Rx (replacee with => 1 = R)
Rx (replace with 3 => R3 = R' )

Now, the sequence :

L2 B U2 F2 Dx R2 D2 Rx F2 R2 Fx D2 F2 Dx R2 U2 Lx B2

each x can be replaced with different numbers.
Easiest case: replace all 'x' with 1
L2 B U2 F2 D R2 D2 R F2 R2 F D2 F2 D R2 U2 L B2

It scrambles the cube very much.
It's not recommended, trying to solve the fortress with this sequence !

Much fun with a good scrambled fortress.

Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:08 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi puzzle-friends,

My bandaged fortress method:
Attachment:

fortress1-3.jpg [ 99.88 KiB | Viewed 6171 times ]

The left is the start position for sequences !
After x2 cubeturn you get the middle picture. This is the view position.
I do this becaus it's easier to follow the turns. In my opinion its easier to folow the sequences. Otherwise you must transform the sequences to an other view, then the most turns are on back/left/down face. I don't recommend this.

First sequence is a 3 cycle of edges:
[spoiler
L2 B U2 F2 (setup)
D R2 D2 R2 D2 R2 D'
F2 U2 B L2 ( undo modified setup)

]
Attachment:

fortress4-6.jpg [ 110.12 KiB | Viewed 6171 times ]

The 'X' means the third permuted edge.
If you replace the B with B' and the B' with B you get the inverse sequence.
The left picture shows the startposition. The middle shows the result after x2 cubeturn. The right picture is the mirrored sequence.

With this sequences you can permute 5 positions of edges.

The following picture shows a sequence with this you can bring edges to oppostite positions. A 2+2 swap:
[spoiler
L2 B U2 F2 (setup)
D (R2 D2) x 3 D'
F2 U2 B' L' (undo setup)

]
Attachment:

fortress7-8.jpg [ 73.03 KiB | Viewed 6171 times ]

The start position is not shown.
The left picture shows the permutation, the right picture shows the mirror.

To make the mirror :
Rerplace U with U' and vice versa.
Replace R with F' and vice versa.
Replace D with D' and vice versa. L with B' and B with L'.

With this 2 sequences you get 2 orbits with the left front edge together ( in view positon [ up=yellow, front=orange])

Now it's possible to reach all 7 positions. But's not possible to flip an edge.
To flip 2 edges you bring it to the 'X' mark in the following picture.
The you can make a 2+2 swap of this edges. After this you bring back the pieces to its origin positions and the pieces are flipped.

The (pseudo flip)sequence :
(2+2swap for flipping)
[spoiler
L2 B U2 F2 (setup)
D R2 D2 R (bring to different 2x2 swap position)
(F2 R2) x 3 the key sequence of this puzzle
R' D2 R2 D' ( undo second setup)
F2 U2 B' L2 (undo first setup)

]
Attachment:

fortress9-10.jpg [ 64.08 KiB | Viewed 6171 times ]

In the left picture the 'x' means the key position for flipping.
Bring the wrong flipped edges to this positions.
The right picture shows the same from a different view.

Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:47 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!

Unbelievable Andrea!! You and Burgo frighten me to death! I just don't know how you do it! One day I hope to be as good as you too!

_________________
Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:55 pm

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Andrea (and Kevin),

Thanks for sharing, our methods are very similar due to the type of bandaging. I am using, as my main, a different 3cycle which changes slightly the way we approach the permutations, but we still use an identical method to flip 2 edges! (Among other shared sequences). I edited my post to include a picture to make it clearer too (I also edited it again to `take out` a sequence that I thought cluttered the method). I tried your scramble and made a solve- good scrambling . I had a feeling when you presented your scramble that you were going to be holding the puzzle in that position, for me, holding it the other way gives me a clear view on what needs to happen.. when I do a series of B twists, I tip the puzzle to make the U be F temporarily.

Scrambling the puzzle is much more efficient than solving it! It makes me think there could be a better way.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:03 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Burgo
thank you for sharing your bandaged fortress method.
I like your 3 cycle "red" to reach the opposite edge positions. Perhaps this is easier than my 2+2 swap.

Kevin:
Kevin wrote:
You and Burgo frighten me to death! I just don't know how you do it! One day I hope to be as good as you too!

You are good
Relevant is only, to love twisty puzzles

Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:32 am

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:51 pm
Location: Bedford, England
Hi guys, i've been playing around with a few new designs today (and nope, i still havent got the unbandaged big block figured out yet - but that's partly because i've been busy with some other puzzles too)

A new one 'C Block'

Not too difficult in the grand scheme of things, and this lead me onto 'C Block - clock':

which again is more challenging, but i'm sure still trivial for the likes of andrea and burgo

_________________

Latest videos: Unboxing Burgo's incredible Crazy 2 Face B4 kit, Calvins 2x4x6

Last edited by martywolfman on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:35 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:53 am

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am
Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!

I knew I would come unstuck soon! I have solved all the easy ones on Burgo's list and with trepidation started on the "bit harder" ones. To my huge relief I even managed Stalactites! Riding this tidal wave of success, I decided to try Unbandaged Big Block and crashed to a halt!

Tried the edges first method and then could not permute corners (much less orient them).

Run out of ideas just now! Not really experienced at this! My aim has always been to learn as few algorithms as possible! So I wanted to use what I already had but doesn't seem possible just now!

Well guys

I've done it at last! It has taken me nearly 2 weeks but I've beaten my nemesis - the Unbandaged Big Block! In the end I found a sort of intuitive way to cycle the corners and then back to Sune for orientating them and then multiple opposite and adjacent edge swaps with setup moves to complete it. I've done it 3 or 4 times now so I know I can repeat it (not a fluke).

Once I've done it a few more times I'm going to dive into the flying carpets puzzle as Burgo suggested. If he is struggling then I won't stand a chance but it looks fun and rather different from everything else we've tried before!

_________________
Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:46 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Kevin,

Although I'm not a guy, congratulations !
The unbandaged big block is a very interesting cube, not too easy ! Perhaps one of the best creations.

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:20 pm

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi friends,
My second design.Perhaps it's a little bit hard. I found not a better name.
Name : pendulum
Attachment:

pendulum.jpg [ 107.55 KiB | Viewed 6035 times ]

Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:56 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Bandaged Puzzlers,

It's been a while since I released a desin, you must all be getting bored, so here's 3 :

Inspired by martywolfman's C Block I went back and had another go at the Unbandaged Big Block and made a V2 & V3. I kept having deja vu, until I realized that I `had` taken the journey before: with the Bandaged YZ. (Buried in that puzzle is the C Block, and that was the result of my exploration on my first journey). The C Block is the 3 face version of the Big Block (in the other direction the 3 faces are the Fuse Cube). So it's an iconic puzzle, a simple puzzle on it's own, but as a base for other puzzles, I'm sure it will be used often.

When split in the other direction, the Unbandaged Big Block needs a second cut to make it functional. I made this split in 2 ways: The Unbandaged Big Block V2 has all of the bandaging still attached to the centres, but interestingly the Unbandaged Big Block V3 gains a floating bandaged segment. These puzzles are on the easier (but still interesting) side, but there have been a few people seeking the easier ones.
Attachment:

Unbandaged Big Block V2 & V3.jpg [ 443.6 KiB | Viewed 6021 times ]
And finally, something mid-range, triggered by this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=8&p=292362#p292362 which is closely related to the Bandaged 333 thread anyway.

I made the Fuse Clock and then figured that I should post it here:
It's really the last Planet (The Pluto of the Bandaged Clock Planet Series, if you will).

Attachment:

Fuse Clock.jpg [ 666.04 KiB | Viewed 6021 times ]
Now I have to try Andrea's Pendulum. Never let a difficult puzzle stop you from posting Andrea! I certainly don't

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:31 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Andrea,

At first I was thinking [the Pendulum] wasn't scrambling very well, but after a while I was satisfied that I had scrambled it enough. The edges are fairly easy to place (and you can't flip them). I have corner permutation and orientation to do, but it's getting late. It's a pretty blocked up puzzle, possibly that will still work against it.. I wonder? Did you solve it yet?

EDIT: This type of 5cycle might go some way to solving it: [Orange F, White U] L'R (U2 R U2 R')x3 R'L ..and I just made a pure corner 3cycle .

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:09 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Burgo,

Thank you for your interesting to my design.
Perhaps the pendulum it harder than the first view on it.

Burgo wrote:
The edges are fairly easy to place (and you can't flip them).

Yes and no. The edges can be flipped ! It not easy , but there is a tricky way to do that.
The edge permutation is easy. I use yellow to top and orange to front for all sequences !
[spoiler]

M2 (setup for all sequences)
(R U2 R' U2) x 5
M2

Look to this picture:
Attachment:

pendulum_p.jpg [ 99.64 KiB | Viewed 5987 times ]

left picture: flip two edges
middle: turn two corners
right: corner 3-cycle

Two edges can flip and two corners can turn and a clean 3cycle of corners is possible !

So it's very difficult.
One hint :
[spoiler]

Don't think: turning the yellow face doesn't make sense!

Some sequences:

[spoiler]

corner 3-cycle=s1
M2 R U2 R' U2 L' U2 R U2 R' U2 L U2 M2
s2:
M2 R' U' F U R U' F' U M2

s3: M2 U' F U R' U' F' U R U2 R U2 R' M2

s4: M2 R' U' F' U L
D' L D L'
L' U' F U R U2 L' U2 L M2

edge 3-cylce ( like my bermuda sequence)
s5:
M2 (R U2 R' U2) x 5 M2

Turn two corners:
s4 + s1

flip two edges:

Flip two edges:

s3 flips edges !
Do s3 , make edge 3cycle, undo s3 and undo 3cycle
s3 s5 s3' s5'

Quote:
Did you solve it yet?

No Perhaps this design is much too hard.
I still explore sequences and concepts for this cube.

Would you categorize how hard it is ? I would say:
very hard

Much fun to find a solution and solve it.

Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:14 pm

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Burgo,
I solved the pendulum.
The cube is solveable with the sequences in the spoiler of my last posting.

Cheers,
Andrea

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:20 am

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 am
Location: Australia
Hi Andrea,

Seems like I spoke too soon, before I had twisted it enough! I wanted you to know I'd had a few twists . Interesting that the edges can be flipped. The first thing that I'm thinking when I see a new design is: Do all of the cuts have a purpose? What is the minimum cuts /bandaging to achieve the effect? The questions I first asked myself about your Pendulum were: `what is the purpose of unbandaging the red-white-blue 1x2x2 block`? And `what is the purpose of unbandaging the orange centre<>yellow clock hand`? On further exploration I intend to find the answers. As you know, I don't just seek to `solve` a bandaged puzzle, I try to see the intentions of the bandager .

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)

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 Post subject: Re: Solving the Bandaged 3x3x3Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:37 am

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am
Location: Germany
Hi Burgo,

Hi Burgo,
Quote:
`what is the purpose of unbandaging the red-white-blue 1x2x2 block`?

(edit)
[spoiler]
The idea behind this cube is, that the first look suggest that the yellow face is not turnable and hasn't sense.

My first design was a second 2x1x1 white red blue block. Then the idea of the yellow block doesn't work. It was important to divide this in two 2x1x1 blocks.

Quote:
And `what is the purpose of unbandaging the orange centre<>yellow clock hand`?

Yes. This sense is together with the first question.
It looks that the yellow 'clock' hasn't a sence. But is it ?
After turning the yellow face it's not possible to make more moves ?

My Explanation gives the solution for this cube:
The yellow face allows an EPS. And this eps allows to turn the corners. In the spoiler the sequence s4 shows this.
It's not possible turn two corners without turning the yellow face, I think.
The configuration with one 3x1x1 bar and clocks don't allow to make setup moves for turning the corners. So you must permute coners to turn it. Because the 3cycle of corners turn it, it's very difficult to solve this cube.

With this explanations the fun of this puzzle is destroyed. I can put this in a spoiler. The fun of a puzzle is to find out this relations / functions.
Perhaps, you don't like this design. It is ok. Everybody has different preferences. Perhaps other designs are better.

]

Cheers,
Andrea

Last edited by Andrea on Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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