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 Post subject: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:13 pm 
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I'm not sure if this has been asked before, but does anyone know how to solve the Burr Cube (the 4x4 versio n)?


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:21 am 
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+1 !
I have just scrambled my wall cube and solving it seems to be very challenging...
Actually, I have no idea of how to solve it. Solve externals faces seems possible, but internals face after!!

Does anyone have any algorithms for solving burr or wall cube ? I will try to find some....

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:16 am 
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Ok, I'll try.

First 4x4x4 Wall cube and 4x4x4 Burr are the same puzzle
MU' - D - ML - ( TF - R2)4 - TF - MR2 - TF' - ( R2 - TF' )4 - ML - MU - D'

So I solve it as a Wall cube
Image
Sorry, I haven't other pic. Blue face is F

4 steps :
1- Sorry, do it yourself !
2 - pieces to swap must be on up and down faces.
I use a Square 1 formula (1,0)/(0,-3)/(3,0)/(-3,0)/(-3,3)/(-3,0)/(2,0)
I use it for 2x2x3, crazy 4x4x4 II and others. It gives : U R2 D' R2 U R2 U R2 U' R2 U' D R2 U' R2
3- swap pieces number 3 on face F.
MU' - D - ML - ( TF - R2 - TF2 - R2 )6 - MU - D'
4- most difficult : MU' - D - ML - ( TF - R2 - TF' - R2 )3 - MU - D' to swap 5 pieces number 4
Use it several times. This step is very hard to explain, you must try to guess how and on where you'll use that formula.

Good luck !


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:11 pm 
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hello,
Rline asked me to explain further, clearer and better my method.
Ok. but I'm really busy this days.

So I'll only explain step 2 for today :

Image

you must see the cube as a 2x2x3
try to do face "Up" by yourself
then on "down" face , you can swap 2 pieces with this formula :
U R2 D' R2 U R2 U R2 U' R2 U' D R2 U' R2

coming soon : step 3


WilliamF


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:35 pm 
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William

Thanks for your reply. Unless I'm just not seeing something it's more confusing. Exactly which pieces were you originally saying you can swap with that sequence?

In your original post,

piece 1=up and down face centers and edges
piece 3=orange, blue, red and green centers
piece 4=outer corners

piece 2=middle layer corners

(If that assumption is wrong, please let me know)

Now, are the piece 2 pieces the individual corners, or a group of 2 corners together? If it's just swapping a group of two corners together, that doesn't fix the problem when you have these middle layer corners separated from each other.

I'm quite willing to say that I've probably missed something, but even in your recent picture, it's not clear which pieces your red arrows are pointing to. It looks like it will swap an outer corner and a middle corner.

I applied your sequence holding the puzzle as in the picture, and it does not appear to do what you're saying. Also, it does not return the puzzle to the original shape in terms of vertical and horizontal positioning. I thought it simply swapped two middle layer corners.

Please, can you clarify? Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:53 pm 
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Hi rline and William,

Actually, I just hadn't seen the 2x2x3 :roll: , that was the last real piece in the puzzle for me, thanks :D . Believe it or not I was doing the 2x2x3 on the side with R U & L turns and didn't recognise it yet :lol: .

The rest is just a Domino method, but the tricky part is you have to account for the Domino super centres, which is also how to account for the Burr to Wall switch. You can see the position for that and my solve in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22960

Rline, you can use your tower sequences to place the `middle extended centres in u & d (White or yellow U)` when you tip the cube on the side like in William's picture (with the burr position).

Then you can change the position of the cube like in my post on the other thread^^ to use your domino method to place the U & D extended corners.

Then you can use your domino method to deal with the orientation of the centres.

Thanks again William :D .
Cheers,
Burgo.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:30 pm 
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Quote:
Rline, you can use your tower sequences to place the `middle extended centres in u & d (White or yellow U)` when you tip the cube on the side like in William's picture (with the burr position).

Oh, now I see it. Just hadn't seen the 2x2x3.

William, please ignore my previous post. It's all ok now.

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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:49 am 
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Hi,

I cannot get my Burr cube in a regular shape like Williams picture.

William, I don't understand your notation. What means "TF" ?


Here my Burr/Wall

Cheers,
Andrea
Attachment:
Burr1.gif
Burr1.gif [ 37.18 KiB | Viewed 6334 times ]
Attachment:
Burr2.gif
Burr2.gif [ 36.65 KiB | Viewed 6334 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:41 am 
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Hi Andrea,

I hope William doesn't mind me answering. I have included a few pictures. First, there is no exact way to make it into a regular shape. You need to be able to imagine the `blocks` being part of either an underlying 2x2x3 or a 3x3x2. Look for ways to `make these` and use your 2x2x3 or 3x3x2 algos or exchange outs, to bring it into the correct shape.

I haven't fully visualised your puzzle in 3D, but rather I have tried to show you the way I might view the `blocks` and/or begin to build the required shape.

With the red numbered arrows there would need to be an L turn in between them (sorry). You need to have grouped blocks in mind but be flexible and change them up to suit your needs.

The other thing I can see is that you haven't scrambled it up fully yet. There's a lot of things still together.

I hope that's a bit helpful.
Cheers,
Burgo.


Attachments:
wall 2.jpg
wall 2.jpg [ 148.64 KiB | Viewed 6282 times ]
wall cube 1.jpg
wall cube 1.jpg [ 118.82 KiB | Viewed 6282 times ]

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)
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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:56 am 
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Hi Burgo,

With many tries, I am able to bring it in a regular shape. Bottom in the picture.
I begin with top and bottom layer and end with the slices. :-)

Always its end with a 3 cycle :(

Top 2 Pictures top and bottom layer are complete.
The right Picture is turned 180 °.

There are a 3 cycle with center-edges.
The bottom pictures are the same cube with normalized layers.
in the right bottom picture I turned the back face 180° (B2) to visualize the 3 cycle.
The white numbers are the 3 cycle 1 -> 2 ->3 --->1

I found no sequence for this.

please help me.
Cheers,
Andrea
Attachment:
Burr2.jpg
Burr2.jpg [ 98.05 KiB | Viewed 6237 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:55 am 
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Hi Andrea,

I'm glad you got through my confusing post^^, it's difficult to explain it. I hope this step is easier. You reduce it to a 2x2x3 with the use of a domino, then solve the 2x2x3:

Then you have to scramble it a bit more and try a harder solve with it :) . (After you do the Burr<>Wall- which I think you can guess now right?)
Cheers,
Burgo.


Attachments:
wall cube reduction.jpg
wall cube reduction.jpg [ 94.45 KiB | Viewed 6223 times ]

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)
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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Hi Burgo,
thank you for your work. ( Which program do you use for painting ?)

After your pictures I was able to solve the Wall cube with 3x3x2 and 2x2x3 sequences.
Genial. After that I must transform this wall cube to the burr cube. :oops: I did this with a description from youtube.
:oops:
It should be better to find a way without this. Do you transform to Burr cube with 2x2x3 and 3x3x2 sequences ?
I think the Burr Cube is not the easiest puzzle.

Cheers,

Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:12 pm 
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I know from previous dabbling with the cube that the best relative positioning of the pieces with the most freedom to commute the pieces, is to have all of the blocks on the FB RL faces in a vertical orientation, with only the UD centers horizontal. If possible, try to get white/white yellow/yellow pieces together for the up/down centers. The vertical edge pieces with the red lines get paired up first using 2x2x3 algorithms with the R face as the 2x2 side. Once the edges are paired, you need to get the corners solved by using the 3x3x2 algorithms with the 3x3 side as the U/D faces.
Attachment:
optimized configuration.PNG
optimized configuration.PNG [ 11.08 KiB | Viewed 6178 times ]


Remember, you're not matching the pieces for a solved configuration, but a four stripes optimized configuration which will be easily converted into the final solved state with either "bricks" pattern (wall or burr). I haven't solved mine yet, but I have already formulated a strategy in my mind of how to do it now just with the hints in this thread. Thanks guys! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:45 pm 
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Hi Andrea & Stardust4ever,

I will talk about 2 things, a type of parity situation where 1 white or yellow centre can be 90* out, and rotating both by 90* (the Wall<>Burr exchange).

For the Parity (to match my diagram) Hold White U, Red F: (U’ d) R’ L Uu’ (R2 L2) Uu’ (R2 L2) Uu (M) (and domino resolve).

For the Burr<>Wall exchange just set up the same: Hold White U, Red F: (U’ d) R’ L (y) then exchange out the `domino corners and edges` to match the 90* twist of the centres (or solve the cube with domino algos to look like it was before the (y) turn).

Cheers,
Burgo.
EDIT: @Andrea: I just use Photoshop, I also like to make my pictures wide where possible so they don't take up a lot of space on the thread (and you can click on them to see more detail).


Attachments:
Wall Cube centre parity.jpg
Wall Cube centre parity.jpg [ 285.69 KiB | Viewed 6166 times ]

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)
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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:48 am 
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I thought about it after I was away from the computer, and my diagram was wrong. There are actually 8 centers, not 4 as my diagram would suggest. Here's the corrected position for manipulating parts. With the crude diagram's orientation, the 3x3 domino face is U and the 2x2 face of the 2x2x3 is F. I appologize for the mixup.
Attachment:
correct orientation.png
correct orientation.png [ 6.81 KiB | Viewed 6143 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:31 am 
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Anyone going here with me?

EDIT: included the sequence photos of the solve order:

Cheers,
Burgo :) .
Attachment:
wall5.jpg
wall5.jpg [ 140.11 KiB | Viewed 6127 times ]
Attachment:
Wall5 solve.jpg
Wall5 solve.jpg [ 229.44 KiB | Viewed 6102 times ]

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:25 pm 
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Hi Burgo,

My way to transform Wall to Burr cube.

The basics comes from Rubik's cube.
Idea:

1) F2 L2 R2 B2 brings all 8 pieces upside down.
Then D.

And
2) B2 R2 L2 F2 U'.

So 2 centers are turnd 90°. But 2x2 edges are permuted.

so
3) M2 U M2 U2 M2 U M2 exchanges the edges.

All together:

U' u D' Y' R' L ( bring the burr cube in basic position)
then

(1) F2 L2 R2 B2 d

(2) B2 R2 L2 F2 u'
(3) M2 U M2 U2 M2 U M2

R L'
D u' U

It's easier and better to understand that sequences than only memorize sequences.

Burgo wrote:
Anyone going here with me?


Is the 5x5 Burr cube very hard ?

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:03 pm 
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Congratulations Andrea, that's a nice, short, intuitive sequence.

Please, if you are referring to a non-symetrical puzzle, I like to write which face is U&F.
Andrea wrote:
U' u D' Y' R' L ( bring the burr cube in basic position)
For this I would write:
Hold White U, Red F:
Setup (U’ d) R’ L

(F2 L2 R2 B2) D (B2 R2 L2 F2) U' nice
M2 U M2 U2 M2 U M2 you can also do (R2 U2)X3 U (R2 U2)X3 U' (that's just my prefered way).
Restore R L' (U d')

I was doing a similar thing, but yours is neater. I was just going around the cube (after the setup): (F2 R2 B2 L2) D (L2 B2 R2 F2) then inserting lower corners with R2 U R2 U' R2 and re-solving the top. Your way is better.

Andrea wrote:
Is the 5x5 Burr cube very hard ?
The Wall5 is very similar to the Wall4. Of course it's a little harder with a few more pieces, but essentially it is the same. In some circumstances you are dealing with a non-proportional 3x3x3 instead of a Domino, for example, and things like that. It was fun, but the Wall4 was a suitable challenge and it's not a `huge` step up from that.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:10 am 
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Now I have enough experience,that I'm able to say: I cannot solve the Wall Cube.

The problem are the centers.
My first step is solve the white and yellow center.
2 centers are solved. One center is in the opposite face. The other center is in one of the 4 sides.

I tried to solve it a long time. The picture shows the cube with normalized shape. The second picture shows
a 90° turn in X Axis.

Some idea to solve this with easy sequences ?

Attachment:
wall1.jpg
wall1.jpg [ 42.1 KiB | Viewed 5909 times ]

Attachment:
wall2.jpg
wall2.jpg [ 48.68 KiB | Viewed 5909 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:25 am 
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Hi Andrea,

In Burr form: Green F, Red U
R' l = Setup (so the centres are around the E layer pointing U to D, and the extended pieces on U&D point F to B)
Bb (U2 D2) Bb (U2 D2) Bb = Twist the centre on B by 90*
Ff (L' R) Uu' R2 Uu F2 (R' L) Ff' = (or something similar to exchange the desired pieces)
Bb' (U2 D2) Bb' (U2 D2) Bb' = Return the centre on B

This is just the idea of what to do. Because it is so early in the solve you don't have to follow it exactly, just conform it to suit your needs.

Cheers,
Burgo.


Attachments:
Splitting centres on Wall4.jpg
Splitting centres on Wall4.jpg [ 156.59 KiB | Viewed 5842 times ]

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)
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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:23 pm 
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Hi Burgo,

thanks for your description. It helps me much. I solved the centers. Very interesting is your sequence to turn one center 90 °. Great work. The next problem are the 2 middle edges. Permuting this is easy. But its possible that 2 or 4 middle edges are flipped. Do you found a sequence for the flipping middle edges ?
In my first solves this situations took not place. Perhaps the cube was not scrambled enough.

OmG. The Wall/Burr cube is so difficult, so my 3x4x5 must wait. I hope the 3x4x5 is easier. But I don't believe it.

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:08 pm 
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Hi Andrea,

I just deleted my last post and am replacing it with a direct solution:

Wall4 2 edge flip
The setup position is shown in the photo (yellow edge-centre groups are placed).

Uu R2 Uu'
(M')
Uu' R2 Uu (edge-centre-group switch)
(M) F2 (M')
Uu' R2 Uu (edge-centre-group switch)
(M)
Uu R2 Uu'

That should help :) .
Cheers,
Burgo.


Attachments:
2 edge flip on wall4.jpg
2 edge flip on wall4.jpg [ 193.6 KiB | Viewed 5635 times ]

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)
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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:59 pm 
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Hi Burgo,

Burgo wrote:
That should help


Yes, this helped. Thank you. I solved the Burr cube.
My solving was experimental. In my opinion the Burr cube is a difficult. I wish more postings about this cube.

Cheers,
Andrea


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:54 am 
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Andrea wrote:
In my opinion the Burr cube is a difficult. I wish more postings about this cube.
I'm surprised more people aren't involved in the thread too. I agree, the Wall/Burr cube is difficult, but it's very interesting, a fascinating cube. Have fun with your 345, I think the Wall Cube is the harder cube :) .

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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:27 pm 
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Hello,

I have some troubles solving my burr cube :
- I need to swap the white pair of pieces on R side with the blue-orange pieces on the B face.
- After that, I would need to exchange the four white pieces with the four yellow ones.

Any ideas to perform that ?

This puzzle is very challenging. Could anybody post a tutorial ?
Thanks


Attachments:
Burr1.jpg
Burr1.jpg [ 101.43 KiB | Viewed 4859 times ]


Last edited by alacoume on Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:44 pm 
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Hi Alacoume,

alacoume wrote:
- I need to swap the white pair of pieces on R side with the blue-orange pieces on the B face.
You can just use a domino algo like /U /U /U2 /U2 /U /U' / [where /=R2 and U=Uu] with the `edge groups` you wish to exchange on RU<>FU.
alacoume wrote:
- After that, I would need to exchange the four white pieces with the four yellow ones.
Domino corner 3cycles like [URB>ULF>ULB] (/U/U'/) y' (/U'/U/) y (NB: this is not pure and also moves edge groups on Uu). The trick is to use it in its 3cycle form because you have to take into account the orientation of the centre groups (Sometimes it is used as a corner `apparent swap`, by doing D' instead of y for the last twist). You can also do it with the white and yellow centres as U&D: but you will need to do L R' to get the shape (there can be 2 different and useable dominos).

The amount of work in a tutorial is big for me at the moment, I'd prefer to answer questions, although I will consider it :) .

Cheers,
Burgo.

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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:46 am 
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Hi Burgo,

Thank you for your answer.
Your first algo is fine, but doing it leads to a swap between the 2 center pieces orange/green on the U face (now splitted between F and R faces in the picture).

What I understand in your alg2 is that to exchange the 4 group of pieces yellow/white, your advice is to cycle to corner pieces around them ?
Problem is that all colour scheme seems inverted in my building. Does it means that I have to solve it again to rearrange colours around the 4 pieces on top/bottom instead of swaping them ?

Thanks


Attachments:
Burr2.jpg
Burr2.jpg [ 71.04 KiB | Viewed 4753 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:04 am 
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Hi Alacoume,

You are on the right path.. You haven’t shown all angles of the cube so it's hard to be definitive (and when you refer to pieces can you please say piece types: because there are yellow & white centres, edges and corners), but I can see that it is nearly solved.

From what I can see you should be able to solve it as a domino from here.. Put it back into its workable shape by [D’ u’] then make the orange/green centre on U and make the white & yellow faces F&B and perform (/U2)X3 to twist the centre and switch the F&B edge groups. Then flip the cube upside down and do the same to the other side (with the blue/red centre as U).

This should nearly resolve it to the Burr Cube unless the red/blue centre is twisted 180*, I think.

You can tackle it numerous ways but I think it’s visually easier to resolve the 2x2x3 first, then the 3x3x2.

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:36 pm 
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Hi Friends,

I changed my Burr-Cube solution. If Up is white and bottom is yellow
1) solve the white and yellow centers ( Burgo's sequences in this thread )
2) flip the white and yellow edges ( Burgo's sequences )
3) solve the inner slices ( layer 2 and layer 3)
turn cube z (90°) and use 2x2x3 sequences
example R2 U R2 U' R2 F2 U' F2 D R2 D' to exchange 2 adjacent inner pieces
3) solve the up and bottom face with 2x2x3 sequences and
3x3x2 sequences example cps ( L2 U R2 U') x 2

This is easier for me than begin with up and down face.

Cheers,

Andrea

(edit)

in the 2 middle layers I begin with the center pieces. It's difficult to solve the centerpieces at last step , like in your pictures.
I end with the outer faces U and B. If 2 edges are permutet I turn this face 180 degress and make two 3 cycles of corners with the sequence 3).


Last edited by Andrea on Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:08 am 
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Hi Burgo,

We were right in your sequence, red and blue has been twisted (see picture 2).
I have tried to finish the solve myself and I am back with a 3-cycle on center pieces in inner slices (see picture 1).
Any idea to finish the solve ?

@Andrea : thank you for sharing your method - I will think on it. For me, Burr cube is a puzzle very difficult to understand.


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:29 am 
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Hi Alacoume,

My method is very similar to Andrea's. The easiest way to help you I think is to try to teach you a method that you can reuse, not to try to give you a next step from `where you are now`. I think you are looking at the parts that you have solved (the domino corners in particular) and tying too hard to conserve them unnecessarily. Forget about the corners for the time being and get the 2x2x3 part done first. I made a diagram to help you. When you are solving the 2x2x3 part you need to concentrate on the slice layers (the area inside the red box). Once that is done (the domino edges and centres are resolved) you can move on to the `domino supercube`.

Cheers,
Burgo.


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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)
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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:03 am 
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alacoume wrote:
Any idea to finish the solve ?
I will include the way to solve this type of situation also. I couldn't replicate your pictures because they are 2 slightly different situations, so I gave an account of what to do instead [click on the image to enlarge it]:

Cheers,
Burgo.


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_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)
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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:13 am 
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Hello,

Thank you Burgo - Actually, I need more a method than a step by step help. I will think about all of that.


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:34 am 
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I missed this cube completely when it was new. (This thread was started roughly a year ago.)
In a thread about "The Hardest Puzzle Ever" it was mentioned as hard. I got curious, ordered it and got it a few days ago.
I was very anxious to scramble it and tested a lot of sequences on the solved cube, before I started to scramble and solve it the first time. I even tried Gelatinbrain's 4x4x4 to avoid unwanted scrambling. This is not such a good idea, because you forget easily how the pieces are bandaged in reality.

Scrambling it slowly and carefully turned out a good way to test sequences. As Burgo has mentioned in a PM, this puzzle is almost as hard to scramble as to solve. :lol: You would need a puzzle friend to scramble it for you properly.

I'm not yet sure, if somebody could scramble it better than I achieved it a few times. It is hard, I think and it is fun :) to solve it.
I had a look at this thread and I think everything is there what you need to solve the Burr Cube. (Some early posts are a bit confusing, I think.)
Thank you Burgo and Andrea for your contributions! :D :D (No, there was nothing confusing here :) )

Especially nice is Andrea's method to transform a Burr Cube to a Wall Cube. Very clever and easy to memorize. :) (The reader will have noticed that Andrea used SIGN notation where u translates to Uu in WCA notation. I'll stick with WCA where u means the slice layer below U)

I understand alacoume, though, that it is not easy to link everything together to a method.
I will not have the time to write something like a tutorial during the next week or so.
If it is still a valid request I might consider it later.

Here is my outline, and a sequence of pictures describing a sample solve. (At least the first part is identical to Andrea's outline, but I use different sequences. They may be less efficient, but it is only one easy to be understood and memorized that is needed additionally to usual cuboid knowledge.)
Each finished step is shown by two little photos - frontside / backside as in Gelatinbrain.

I hope the experts will find my scramble a decent one.

1. Back to the "standard" shape.

2. Build the yellow and white centres.
For me the hardest part. I swap two centres (+ edges and corners not yet placed) by a [9:1] conjugation swapping the Uf centre with the Fu centre.

3. Flip and place the white and yellow edges. If I call the conjugation in 2. A, it is the commutator [A,1] I'm using for flipping the edges (if necessary).

4.Place the other centres having in mind that picture 7 is the target pattern.

5. Place the 8 centre-edges correctly viewing it as a 2x2x3 and not caring about the corners yet.

6. and 7. Place the corners. This is actually one step and I use 3x3x2 sequences probably mentioned in this thread.
(e.g. Setup white = U, green = F; u D': (R2 Uu' L2 Uu)X2 (rline will call it a CPS)

8. Transform it to a Burr Cube using Andrea's method.
(Setup white = U, green = F; u D' R' L : F2 R2 L2 B2 Dd B2 L2 R2 F2 Uu' (R2 U2)X3 (Uu) (R2 (Uu)2)X3 (Uu)'; reverse Setup u' D R L')

Image

Edit: Here is the [9:1] conjugation:
Setup on a solved cube: U=white; F=green; u D' R' L:
A = Uu R2 L2 Uu B2 F2 R' L' Ff U2 (Ff)' R L F2 B2 (Uu)' L2 R2 (Uu)' = [Uu R2 L2 Uu B2 F2 R' L' Ff : U2]
You can cut amd paste this into Gelatinbrain 4x4x4 to see what it does:
U, U&2, L2, R2, U, U&2, F2, B2,
L', R', F, F&2, U2, F', F'&2, R, L,
B2, F2, U', U'&2, R2, L2, U', U'&2,
The commutator is [A,(Dd)2] and it flips the edges UF and FD.
Burgo's edge flip is shorter, but I did not need to come up with something new, just reuse A.

Edit2:This diagram shows the result of the conjugation A:

Image
You can recognize the flipping of two edges too.

A nice thing is that this sequence is its own inverse.

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Last edited by Konrad on Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:03 am 
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Hi Konrad,

Thanks for sharing. Glad you managed a thorough scramble.. I might need to post you my cube to scramble it and send it back :wink: . I agree, this thread has been a bit haphazard in the conversation, but a decent technique is within it if you look hard enough.

The problem on my part was that my method and technique were developing over the time. At the start I was really only solving it with intuition and it was this discussion that in the end forced me to develop a more structured method. The other thing is that when people ask.. `how do I do this or that` I like to answer them, even though it might not be how I'd particularly be going about it in my method (because I respect people developing their own thing). But this might add confusion to someone `reading through` the thread.

All this leads me to think I might do a more structured consolidating post outlining my method a bit better soon too.

Are you going to share your [9:1] conjugation and [A,1] commutator?

Cheers,
Burgo.

_________________
1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:15 am 
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Hi Burgo,

I edited my post above to include the conjugation A.
I did not mean to criticize any of you two - Burgo and Andrea. I had no problem to understand your posts :) .
I even added a comment in the first place that tried to say this :)

To be open, I do understand not at all the post #2 in this thread. I think the writer was in a hurry and has not even explained his notation. Has anybody found out how
Quote:
MU' - D - ML - ( TF - R2)4 - TF - MR2 - TF' - ( R2 - TF' )4 - ML - MU - D'
translates to something I can understand? :roll:
I understand, though, how it is, if you have not enough time. :)
On the other hand, no time within the last year? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:50 am 
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I agree Konrad, there is everything on this thread to solve it. But, it is confusing, especially with this hard puzzle.
With the help of Burgo, I have solved mine. I don't want yet to scramble it again, because I think I have been lucky in some steps...
Thank you for all the time you take to share yours sequences. I personnaly really appreciate. I am a bit frustating not participating to this brainstorming, but I cannot find time to do it. Moreover, if I could find time, my brain would be enough clever ? Not sure...


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 Post subject: Re: Burr Cube
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:41 am 
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Hi friends,

I want add some sequences:

SuperAntoniovivaldi found this transformation from burr to wall:

Uu 2M Uui 2Mi Uu 2M Uui 2M Uu 2M Uui Mi

this is much more easy than my seqence !

He solves flipping edges and permuting centers in one step:

Uu 2R 2L Uu 2F 2B Ri Li Ff 2U Ffi R L 2F 2B Uui 2R 2L Uui

genial this ! I use this sequences now.

Solving the Wall Cube I begin with inner slices. In all cases it's necessary to swap 2 diagonal squares.
I solve this with a sequence from square-1 (domino sequence). R2 U R U' R U R U R2 U2 R2 U2.
This swaps 2 diagonal squares in top and 2 adjacent corners in bottom.
To clean swap the adjacent squares I turn the cube upside down and use the domino sequence :
R2 U R2 U' R F2 U' F2 D R2

This sequences are longer than the other known sequences but it devides the solution in two steps. So it's more visible what i do.
I use this sequences for the cuboid 3x4x5, too.

Here the video from SuperAntoniovivaldi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FnNzFo0ITM&feature=plcp

Cheers,
Andrea


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