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 Post subject: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:01 pm 
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I need a point in the right direction. I have no clue where to start and what I'm supposed to be doing. Any input is appreciated!

(No algs please, just, as always, general method)

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:26 pm 
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If you just want the smallest of hints, here's a pic by Carl.Image

Original post for more spoilers. He has more great pics on the 2nd page.

If you want much more descriptive hint, try Konrad's thread.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:51 am 
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Thanks! I figured it out before I looked here, but still, thank you anyways.

Just another question: What causes parity on the 4x4?

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:02 am 
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The internal edges. The wedges on the 4x4x4 are placed incorrectly to the internal edge, which is what dictates the edge orientation.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:08 am 
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HUH?

(btw, corner parity, not the case where one edge is flipped)

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:10 am 
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Actually, the parity I was describing works in both cases. And a corner swap is still due to the edges; you just perform an algorithm which swaps two edges and two corners and now you have the parity on the corners.

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3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:42 am 
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Luke wrote:
The internal edges. The wedges on the 4x4x4 are placed incorrectly to the internal edge, which is what dictates the edge orientation.


I'm confused by this part... :?:

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:15 am 
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How I solve the crazy 4x4x4 III:

1. Solve the inner 2x2x2 (the centers)
2. Solve the circle edge pieces on white and yellow side, which also solves the circle edges in the middle two layers, since they are virtually attached, as shown in the picture posted earlier in this thread. I use a simple commutator for this step.
3. Solve the rest of the circle edges, much like solving the corners on a cuboid.
4. Pair the 4x4x4 edges.
5. Solve reduced 4x4x4 like a 3x3x3.

You will not run into orientation parity, but you can run into permutation parity.
But, the normal parity algorithms for the two switched edges case mess up the inner 2x2x2 and some of the circle edges. So, you'll have to fix the parity intuitively, which isn't as hard as it may seem. The downside to that is that it messes up the position of most edges and corners, so you'll have to re-do the 3x3x3 part of the solve.

The crazy 4x4x4 III is my favorite puzzle at the moment, I really enjoy solving it.

Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:42 am 
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Just theorizing here, but...
first solve like normal super 4x4x4 ('circle' edges [actually centers], edges, outer corners)
and then solve the inner 2x2x2 corners using corner perm/orientation algs, only twisting middle slices.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:23 pm 
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Monopoly wrote:
Just theorizing here, but...
first solve like normal super 4x4x4 ('circle' edges [actually centers], edges, outer corners)
and then solve the inner 2x2x2 corners using corner perm/orientation algs, only twisting middle slices.


I don't think that would work. If you do a slice move, all pieces within the circle move with it. So, when you permute a 2x2x2 corner, the circle edge pieces move along with it.


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 Post subject: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:27 pm 
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Video with algorithms "How to solve crazy 4x4 II".
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQZzx-fWL_c&feature=player_embedded;
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzjFx2WHraA&feature=player_embedded;
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOzSjKbmBJg&feature=player_embedded.


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:27 pm 
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luke1984 wrote:
Monopoly wrote:
Just theorizing here, but...
first solve like normal super 4x4x4 ('circle' edges [actually centers], edges, outer corners)
and then solve the inner 2x2x2 corners using corner perm/orientation algs, only twisting middle slices.


I don't think that would work. If you do a slice move, all pieces within the circle move with it. So, when you permute a 2x2x2 corner, the circle edge pieces move along with it.

I'm sure that with the traditional corner-perm alg (U R U' L' U R' U' L, and the reverse of the alg) and a full sequence [e.g. 6] of the traditional corner-orient alg (R' D' R D) the circle-edges AKA centers don't move, because when you do only slice moves a pair of centers (in this case, a set of four circle-edges) act as a single 3x3x3 edge.

In other words, you can pretty much solve the whole thing like a 4x4x4 and then solve the inner corners last, using slices-only moves.

see attached for analogous pieces.
dark parts show the equivalent of the top layer of a 3x3x3
red shows the equivalent of a 3x3x3 center
green shows the equivalent of a 3x3x3 edge
cyan shows the equivalent of a 3x3x3 corner


Attachments:
crazy 4x4x4 v. 3x3x3.jpg
crazy 4x4x4 v. 3x3x3.jpg [ 343.77 KiB | Viewed 1867 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:17 pm 
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Interesting post, Monopoly. I guess you're right, I hadn't thought of that.


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 Post subject: Re: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:25 pm 
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Call me stupid (seriously, I feel like an idiot) but I can't figure out the PLL parity. Help?

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:25 am 
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NType3 wrote:
Call me stupid (seriously, I feel like an idiot) but I can't figure out the PLL parity. Help?

There's a couple algorithms on the 2nd page of the thread where the puzzle was announced.
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14856&start=50

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:14 am 
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...


Last edited by bish on Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to solve crazy 4x4 II (actually 4x4 III)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:51 pm 
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Maybe this helps?

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