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rline

Post subject: 3x3x4 Clean swap of 2 corners Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:38 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am


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Zeotor

Post subject: Re: 3x3x4 Clean swap of 2 corners Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:37 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:37 pm

This video appears to have a solution, though it's kind of long. The algorithm is in the video description. It is for different corners than your situation, but you could probably use some setup moves to make it work.


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Luke

Post subject: Re: 3x3x4 Clean swap of 2 corners Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:23 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:21 pm Location: Chichester, England

D R2 Z' r2 R2 B2 U2 r2 R2 U2 B2 r2 R2 Z (R2 U2)x3 Y' R2 U R2 U' R2 U' D R2 U' R2 U R2 D' B2 D'.
This was made by solving the parity, setting up the corners, TPerming it and resolving the setup moves. Look at what happens instead of trying to memorise it.
_________________ 3x3x3 single: 5.73 seconds. 3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds. 3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.
Buy the Curvy Copter Skewb, NovaMinx, and more here!


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Sacro

Post subject: Re: 3x3x4 Clean swap of 2 corners Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:20 pm Location: Norway

Maybe you should throw in a picture as well ? The solutions are usually very easy, only they consist of different alogarithms put together
_________________ Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity (Vinnie Jones, Snatch)


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rline

Post subject: Re: 3x3x4 Clean swap of 2 corners Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am

Thanks so far. Quote: D R2 Z' r2 R2 B2 U2 r2 R2 U2 B2 r2 R2 Z (R2 U2)x3 Y' R2 U R2 U' R2 U' D R2 U' R2 U R2 D' B2 D' I tried this but it didn't work at all. I have no doubt it's because I don't fully understand the y and z notation. I did look it up and used what I thought was right but it obviously wasn't. Quote: Maybe you should throw in a picture as well ? The solutions are usually very easy, only they consist of different alogarithms put together Here they are: Attachment:
Picture 001.jpg [ 56.42 KiB  Viewed 1592 times ]
Attachment:
Picture 002.jpg [ 57.49 KiB  Viewed 1592 times ]
_________________ Youtube Twisty Puzzling Blogger Twisty Puzzling  Simple Solutions for Puzzling Twisties Tutorials: Pitcher OctoStar Cube  GERANIUM  Wheel of Wisdom


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Luke

Post subject: Re: 3x3x4 Clean swap of 2 corners Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:22 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:21 pm Location: Chichester, England

I've tried this several times and it does work. Z is where you turn the puzzle like you're doing an F move. Z' is like turning the puzzle in the same direction as an F'. Y is like turning the puzzle like a U, and Y' is the same as U'.
_________________ 3x3x3 single: 5.73 seconds. 3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds. 3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.
Buy the Curvy Copter Skewb, NovaMinx, and more here!


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rline

Post subject: Re: 3x3x4 Clean swap of 2 corners Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:54 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am


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peedu

Post subject: Re: 3x3x4 Clean swap of 2 corners Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:36 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:02 am

I would do it with Tperm and Hperm (+setup & undo). DB2 (R2UR2U'R2U') D (R2U'R2UR2) D' B2D' L2d2 (R2DwR2) (Dw2R2Dw2) (R2DwR2) d2L2 This will swap URF and DRB, it is easier to make series of R2 turns instead of F2. Hold it in "standing" position  yellow or white up. Peedu


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Luke

Post subject: Re: 3x3x4 Clean swap of 2 corners Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:36 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:21 pm Location: Chichester, England

The puzzle should be held like it is in the first picture, with orange being F. Remember that r2 is two layers, not just a slice turn.
_________________ 3x3x3 single: 5.73 seconds. 3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds. 3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.
Buy the Curvy Copter Skewb, NovaMinx, and more here!


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jaap

Post subject: Re: 3x3x4 Clean swap of 2 corners Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:28 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2000 9:11 pm Location: Delft, the Netherlands

I ran it through a computer, and the shortest it could find has 18 layer turns. F u2 R U F Uu2 F R U R U2 R F U3 F Uu2 Note that u2 here is a single inner slice turn, and Uu2 is a turn of two layers, and that moves of R and F faces are half turns even though I haven't written a 2 after them. Note also that the first F turn can be skipped and done at the end instead.
_________________ Jaap
Jaap's Puzzle Page: http://www.jaapsch.net/puzzles/


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peedu

Post subject: Re: 3x3x4 Clean swap of 2 corners Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:32 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:02 am

Hi, Just something I thought about on my way to work. Can't test it on a cube right now, but I'm pretty sure that the algorithm I suggested... peedu wrote: DB2 (R2UR2U'R2U') D (R2U'R2UR2) D' B2D' L2d2 (R2DwR2) (Dw2R2Dw2) (R2DwR2) d2L2
... is not 100% pure or clean. It swithes the center pieces on R face. It does not matter if they are solved already (same color) or will be solved later (not important). It will matter when solving corners before centers blindfolded. And now when I saw this one... jaap wrote: F u2 R U F Uu2 F R U R U2 R F U3 F Uu2
... looks like the same centers will be switched. About the notation. Since always the meaning of small letter needs to be explained, I used the 'Dw' and leaving out just the inner slice turn for 'd'. 'U3' in jaap's algorithm must probably be 'U2', right? Peedu


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jaap

Post subject: Re: 3x3x4 Clean swap of 2 corners Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:19 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2000 9:11 pm Location: Delft, the Netherlands

peedu wrote: Just something I thought about on my way to work. Can't test it on a cube right now, but I'm pretty sure that the algorithm I suggested... ... is not 100% pure or clean. A 100% clean algorithm is impossible. Every move is an even permutation: Horizontal layer quarter turns are two 4cycles (corners+edges, or edges+centres) and side face half turns are six transpositions. A 'clean' corner swap will by necessity therefore also swap some identical centre pieces. It must in fact use an odd number of U/D quarter turns, and an odd number of u/d layer quarter turns and R,L,F,B side turns. peedu wrote: jaap wrote: F u2 R U F Uu2 F R U R U2 R F U3 F Uu2 'U3' in jaap's algorithm must probably be 'U2', right? No, it is U'.
_________________ Jaap
Jaap's Puzzle Page: http://www.jaapsch.net/puzzles/


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peedu

Post subject: Re: 3x3x4 Clean swap of 2 corners Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:33 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:02 am

jaap wrote: peedu wrote: Just something I thought about on my way to work. Can't test it on a cube right now, but I'm pretty sure that the algorithm I suggested... ... is not 100% pure or clean. A 100% clean algorithm is impossible. Every move is an even permutation: Horizontal layer quarter turns are two 4cycles (corners+edges, or edges+centres) and side face half turns are six transpositions. A 'clean' corner swap will by necessity therefore also swap some identical centre pieces. It must in fact use an odd number of U/D quarter turns, and an odd number of u/d layer quarter turns and R,L,F,B side turns. peedu wrote: jaap wrote: F u2 R U F Uu2 F R U R U2 R F U3 F Uu2 'U3' in jaap's algorithm must probably be 'U2', right? No, it is U'. Hi, I also came to the conclusion that 100% clean 2piece swap is impossible. Your algorithm is better. I'm thinking about solving it blindfolded. Just have to find how to handle the 'parity' issues. Peedu


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Sacro

Post subject: Re: 3x3x4 Clean swap of 2 corners Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:12 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:20 pm Location: Norway

Im still wondering what you did to actually get it like that without trying?
I always solve one layer by slotting corners, then the opposite layer solving corners first, then centres/edges.
_________________ Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity (Vinnie Jones, Snatch)


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Luke

Post subject: Re: 3x3x4 Clean swap of 2 corners Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:20 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:21 pm Location: Chichester, England

The easiest thing to do is solve one face however you wish to do it (possibly by corners first, and then edges). Then on the top layer, solve any parity case (this is easy if you know the 21 possible OLL cases), solve corners and then do edge cycles.
_________________ 3x3x3 single: 5.73 seconds. 3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds. 3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.
Buy the Curvy Copter Skewb, NovaMinx, and more here!


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Sacro

Post subject: Re: 3x3x4 Clean swap of 2 corners Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:20 pm Location: Norway

Luke wrote: The easiest thing to do is solve one face however you wish to do it (possibly by corners first, and then edges). Then on the top layer, solve any parity case (this is easy if you know the 21 possible OLL cases), solve corners and then do edge cycles. Honestly i have no idea what OLL cases is at all. I just solve it the same way i would solve a 3x3x2, then solve pariities
_________________ Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity (Vinnie Jones, Snatch)


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