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 Post subject: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:22 pm 
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I couldn't find any posts about a jumbling helicopter cube solution in search, but I know people have solved it.

I found a solution for jumbling which uses only 1 more algorithm than the regular solution to the puzzle.

How complicated are your solutions? Are they easy to find? Is it worth my time and effort to post a how to solve video?

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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:37 pm 
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NType3 wrote:
I couldn't find any posts about a jumbling helicopter cube solution in search, but I know people have solved it.

I found a solution for jumbling which uses only 1 more algorithm than the regular solution to the puzzle.

How complicated are your solutions? Are they easy to find? Is it worth my time and effort to post a how to solve video?
I don't know any algorithms / strategies to get the puzzle back to a cubic state other than intuition. I don't find it that hard but there is one state with everything cubic except two adjacent edges jutting out that takes more thought to get out of.

As for solving once it is un-jumbled, I first fix all of the orbitals by solving the triangles around each face, finding the faces that can't be completed and then moving pieces between orbitals with a sequence that makes use of jumbling. Once I have all of the orbitals fixed I solve like a typical helicopter cube.

I'm only interested in seeing how other people move pieces between orbitals. When I found my sequence, I was having too much trouble keeping track of where pieces moved so I used a dry-erase marker and numbered every piece. Then after I applied a given sequence I would check where the pieces moved. I'm not sure how other people found their orbital fixing sequences but it would have taken me a very long time if I hadn't used a marker.

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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:17 pm 
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I will post my solution here in a few hours if you would like. I came up with it on my own, and it's fairly straightforward, there are three, maybe four algorithms that I use with each other to solve it. I solve the centers one at a time, fixing those out of their orbital, then permutate the corners, then orient them.

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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:41 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
I'm not sure how other people found their orbital fixing sequences but it would have taken me a very long time if I hadn't used a marker.


It sounds as if you have developed a rather long solution to fixing the orbitals, when it's very, very simple to switch orbitals unpure.

I don't know helicopter notation, but I'll call the various rotating edges as UF, UB, UR etc etc...where UR and RU are the same turn.

Turn the FL edge about 20 degrees clockwise to a jumbling angle. Turn the UR edge about 20 degrees clockwise to a jumbling angle. Turn the UF edge a full 180 degrees. Return the FL and UR edges to the cubic state by going counter clockwise about 20 degrees. Turn the UF edge 180 degrees.

And Viola! You shifted the orbitals of two pieces directly opposite eachother.

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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:59 pm 
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My solution's a bit longer, but is really intuitive. And seriously, only one algorithm.

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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:03 pm 
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EMarx wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
I'm not sure how other people found their orbital fixing sequences but it would have taken me a very long time if I hadn't used a marker.

It sounds as if you have developed a rather long solution to fixing the orbitals, when it's very, very simple to switch orbitals unpure.
[...]Turn the FL edge about 20 degrees clockwise to a jumbling angle. Turn the UR edge about 20 degrees clockwise to a jumbling angle. Turn the UF edge a full 180 degrees. Return the FL and UR edges to the cubic state by going counter clockwise about 20 degrees. Turn the UF edge 180 degrees.
I don't have my helicopter cube at home so I can't post my routine right now but it is either 6 or 8 moves. I'm not sure because I have memorized it visually I can't do it in my head. It preserves the corners entirely and does 2 independent 3-cycles of the center pieces. One of the 3-cycles is all within a single orbital so it is basically a NOP. The other is across two orbitals which allows me to move pieces between the orbits.

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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:04 pm 
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NType3 wrote:
My solution's a bit longer, but is really intuitive. And seriously, only one algorithm.


Please make a "how to" video and post it here, I can use it for sure =)

Thanks,
Sharon

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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:10 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
I don't have my helicopter cube at home so I can't post my routine right now but it is either 6 or 8 moves. I'm not sure because I have memorized it visually I can't do it in my head. It preserves the corners entirely and does 2 independent 3-cycles of the center pieces. One of the 3-cycles is all within a single orbital so it is basically a NOP. The other is across two orbitals which allows me to move pieces between the orbits.



Post up the algorithm after you get your helicopter cube. Or maybe figure it out on gelatinbrain, then post it?

Be sure to take a look at mine as well.

Looking back, it's as pure as it gets and it's only 6 moves.

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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:45 pm 
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EMarx wrote:
Turn the FL edge about 20 degrees clockwise to a jumbling angle. Turn the UR edge about 20 degrees clockwise to a jumbling angle. Turn the UF edge a full 180 degrees. Return the FL and UR edges to the cubic state by going counter clockwise about 20 degrees. Turn the UF edge 180 degrees.
This is what I use as well; it's all you need beyond the regular helicopter transforms to solve a jumbled helicopter.

My original jumbling transform was much, much longer; somehow I had missed this sequence. Jason showed it to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:52 pm 
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There's a much simpler way. Has anyone except me ever tried helicopter cube reduction?

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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:54 pm 
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NType3 wrote:
There's a much simpler way. Has anyone except me ever tried helicopter cube reduction?
Reduction to what? With only edge turns you pretty much have to reduce to a helicopter cube which I believe is what everyone here is discussing doing. Once you fix the orbits you solve like a non-jumbled helicopter cube.

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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:16 pm 
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Oh, right.

How many algorithms do you all use for a regular heli solve?

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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:49 pm 
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I have a single algorithm which I shall display through pictures:

Doing it on the other side results in a 2-corner swap, that makes permutating the last layer corners so much easier:

(sorry the cube position is switched in the pictures, I took the pictures at different times.)

My method involves solving one 'face' completely (may require use of this algorithm, if pieces not in correct orbits), then dropping in the bottom-layer face peices so that the puzzle is, quite literally, half-solved. Again you might need the algorithm to correctly place some pieces. Then you solve all of the other pieces on the side. This may require extensive use of the algorithm, and it took me a while to fully figure out how it all worked. Then you use the algorithm twice to permutate corners, and then orient corners.

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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:52 pm 
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For the heli cube nonjumbled, I use a really simple algorithm (UF FR) x3

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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:34 pm 
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It seems many people have found the same algorithm for jumbling. Although, the helicopter cube is far from the hardest puzzle around. :D

I really only use two algorithms.

I solve it exactly like you, monopoly. Half the puzzle using intuition and the jumbling alg if need be. Then the edges of the other half. Followed by using commutators for corner placement, then an algorithm for orientation.

Although it's fairly simple to come up with commutators for corner orientation as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:49 pm 
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Huh. I first use the jumbling transform if necessary to sort out the face orbits, then top corners, bottom corners, faces. There are two simple face transforms I use -- a double-pair swapper (two orbits) and a 3-cycle (one orbit). I've been using a commutator to fix the bottom corner orientation, but I just found a much shorter transform.


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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:33 am 
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bhearn wrote:
Huh. I first use the jumbling transform if necessary to sort out the face orbits, then top corners, bottom corners, faces. There are two simple face transforms I use -- a double-pair swapper (two orbits) and a 3-cycle (one orbit). I've been using a commutator to fix the bottom corner orientation, but I just found a much shorter transform.


Piece type solves are usually the most inefficient methods of solving, but a necessary evil on puzzles like the latch cube.

Try solving it white face pieces first, bottom corners, then all the edges to complete that half of the puzzle. Then use intuition to place the top corners, then resort to your transforms for the remaining edges.

Or alternatively, use intuition for the remaining edges, then create new commutators for corner permutation.

I think you'll find it makes a much more enjoyable and intuitive solve :D

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 Post subject: Re: Easy heli jumbling solution?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:49 pm 
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EMarx wrote:
Try solving it white face pieces first, bottom corners, then all the edges to complete that half of the puzzle. Then use intuition to place the top corners, then resort to your transforms for the remaining edges.

Or alternatively, use intuition for the remaining edges, then create new commutators for corner permutation.

I think you'll find it makes a much more enjoyable and intuitive solve :D
Hmm, I tried that, and maybe I'm doing it wrong, but it seems faster my original way. It's very fast to solve the corners, and then the faces are positioned two or three at a time, rather than one at a time, as it sounds like you are suggesting.


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