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Jaredloe

Post subject: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:23 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:16 pm Location: Canada

I've been an avid puzzle collector and solver for nearly 15 years now but I never really read threads much except to see the latest builds and puzzle sales. So to be honest, I'm pretty aloof to many of the things which surround most cubers lives (or so it seems sometimes). An example: I don't know any of the 'lingo' used by the community to solve the 3x3x3, 4x4x4 or so on. My question is this: Do most cubers learn the 3x3x3 themselves or do most find tutorials online? And are speed cubers actually assembling the whole cube at once or are they just sequencing through each layer? When I first began to cube I only understood the row by row possibility of solving a 3x3x3 and so when I received my first 5x5x5 in the 1990s I solved it row by row as well. Today I solve my 7x7x7 row by row and I have a video on youtube of that which I'll add to the bottom. I don't know how to solve the nxnxn's the traditional way. Actually it seems I'm one of a kind. Is this true? Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's exclusively row by row? Is that considered easier or harder for most people? Is it considered odd or sloppy? Any input would be nice. I'm also wondering how many collectors solve their cubes? I've pretty much solved every cube that I've owned minus a few which remain in progress. But for now I'm wondering what the measuring stick is for successful cubers. I solve my FTO, 7x7x7, Square1, Square 2, Skewbs, Golden Cubes, 3x3x2, 3x3x4, and what not. Are these challenging cubes to solve for many or fairly standard? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4w6TWveb8M
_________________ Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/kitslam


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KelvinS

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:50 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm

I use the centersfirst method: first the 6 centers and then the 6 faces. Now seriously, I do one complete layer (corners then edges), then the opposite layer (corners then edges), and finally the middle layer. But apparently I'm one of the slowest on the TP forum, so I wouldn't recommend it.
_________________ If you want something you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done  Thomas Jefferson


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maarten

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:24 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:50 pm

Finally! somebody else who is solving opposite faces first!
I developed this method in the 80's, it was pretty efficient (back then) and could easily be generalized to higher order puzzles.
So: faces first complete two opposite faces remaining edges (in no particular order just 'as they come')
_________________ view my collection at http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/maarten1729


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Konrad

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:56 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am Location: Germany, Bavaria

kitslam wrote: ...I don't know any of the 'lingo' used by the community to solve the 3x3x3, 4x4x4 or so on. My question is this:
Do most cubers learn the 3x3x3 themselves or do most find tutorials online? And are speed cubers actually assembling the whole cube at once or are they just sequencing through each layer? My opinion (I do not think that there is a real study out there): Only a small percentage of all cubes ever sold have been solved  something like 5%. And only a small percentage of the solvers have found their own solution. kitslam wrote: When I first began to cube I only understood the row by row possibility of solving a 3x3x3 and so when I received my first 5x5x5 in the 1990s I solved it row by row as well. You mean layer by layer, right? This is the easiest to learn beginners method. The Fridrich method is probably used by most speedsolvers. (Named after Jessica Fridrich, who was very fast in the early 80s). The Lars Petrus method is another method. I'm personally not a speed solver. When I got my first my first 4x4x4 (in 1981 or so), I used the layer by layer method. kitslam wrote: Today I solve my 7x7x7 row by row and I have a video on youtube of that which I'll add to the bottom. I don't know how to solve the nxnxn's the traditional way. Actually it seems I'm one of a kind. Is this true? Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's exclusively row by row? Is that considered easier or harder for most people? Is it considered odd or sloppy? Any input would be nice. Nowadays, I use the wide spread reduction method: Build the centres, build the edges, solve it as a 3x3x3  take care of parity situations, while doing the last step. kitslam wrote: I'm also wondering how many collectors solve their cubes? I've pretty much solved every cube that I've owned minus a few which remain in progress. But for now I'm wondering what the measuring stick is for successful cubers. I solve my FTO, 7x7x7, Square1, Square 2, Skewbs, Golden Cubes, 3x3x2, 3x3x4, and what not. Are these challenging cubes to solve for many or fairly standard? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4w6TWveb8MI can solve all of the mentioned and many more, but I have to admitt that I used help from the Internet for some of them. For some custom made puzzles I own, there was no such help. Still it is a rule that I collect challenges and not physical puzzles to put on a shelf. I'll not buy new puzzles, when I have not solved all that I own, so far.
_________________ My collection at: http://sites.google.com/site/twistykon/home


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katsmom

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2000 3:17 pm Location: Hong Kong

Being an old dog who had to learn it without the aid of books or internet, my solving is layer by layer. Corners first, then edge pieces. As for solving all my puzzleswell no. I have many I haven't done anything more with than snap a photo of. Duplicates with different colors are not a challenge so why bother? The other issue with me is that they just take so darned longmy average time for a 3x3? Around 23 hours. I haven't memorized anything, and solve it as it tells me what to do next. Speed solver I am not. I like the fiddle factor of puzzles and the mental challenge of discovering what comes next. I've a good friend here who tells me R2U2 or some such all the time. I just smile and not my head like I know what he's on about. (Not a clue!) For me, the worst thing is 'discovering a solution' that can be done because I've memorized it. The helicopter (unjumbled) was like this. I caught on to something and was so disgusted by myself that I put the puzzle down and have not picked it up sense. For me, anyone can memorize a solutionyoung kids do it....but it's not everyone who has the patience to just sit and talk to a puzzle and listen to it when it talks back. There is a real talent involved in taking hours to solve one
_________________ Rox's Rambling Blog Katsmom's Puzzling Videos


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Steveo

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:37 pm Location: Canada

I do! I do! I solve all my cubes layer by layer, and (obviously) figured out how to by myself (which took months!). However, for the middle layers, I do whatever is convenient, because I move one piece in/out of those layers at a time.
I can solve all of my puzzles except the pyraminx crystal and jumbled helicopter. I refuse to find a solution off the net. The square1 is the one exception I couldn't figure out parity!
_________________


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traiphum

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:05 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:48 pm Location: Thailand

My first solving 3x3 also is layer by layer, start corners first. That time is >20 year passed. But that time I can't solve last layer(sometime lucky on last face), I never know it has solution and still don't know how diasssambly it. I used that method untill 4 years ago, I learn more about CFOP and done. SOLVED. Then I got 5x5, I start learn more solve it without regular solution. yes! start with layer by layer again(also cubie by cubie). but not thing hard enough, I finish solve at first time. (4x47x7) Finding more the way to play it, I do it by reverse solution and also mixed with layer by layer(cubie by cubie). That meant solve start at first layer without group of center, take cubie (lower adge and corner) come in right position by independently (or cubie by cubie) and then take virtical adge come same independently. Solve last upper adge and corner by OLL,PLL. after that solve group of center cubie by cubie, if has one cubie take one, has two connected take two, three take three, if can change between color take it first. It very exciting for me, and also I solve it at the first time that I do. Happy with another solving way. Sorry with my confuse message. HAHA see picture of my solve, 7x7 at the behind rigth side. leave center
_________________ My designed FaceBookPage TraiphumPuzzles Youtube Channel : Traiphumi
Last edited by traiphum on Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Nvno23

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:59 pm Location: Portugal

I also use the reduction method to solve the higher order cubes. When i first got my 3x3x3 i played with it a lot and i only could get the first 2 layers right, i was so tired of trying and failing that i looked online for a tutorial to help me solve the last layer (it's something i'm not really proud of ) For the higher order cubes, i heard about the reduction method and tried to use it on my 4x4x4 and my 5x5x5 and i was able to do it but i need help with the parity (i didn't even know what the parity was back then) So there you go, i love twisty puzzles, but i think i'm not smart enough to solve one entirely by myself I require some help most of the times.
_________________ welcome to the world between the cracks in the sidewalk


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QuirkyCubes

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:33 am 

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:19 pm Location: PA

I can solve 5 sides... then I get stuck But seriously, I solve most of my puzzles layer by layer except the cuboids; I use a more abstract method that I figured out for those. For higher (4x4+ or gigaminx+) puzzles, I solve all the centers and than work by layers.
_________________
Shapeways Shop  Youtube Channel
Custom Puzzles For Sale Moldmaking Tutorial


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Luke

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:11 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:21 pm Location: Chichester, England

I can solve most puzzles layer by layer, but my LBL method is really slow, so I usually just use the reduction method.
_________________ 3x3x3 single: 5.73 seconds. 3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds. 3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.
Buy the Curvy Copter Skewb, NovaMinx, and more here!


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pytlivyj_1

Post subject: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:59 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:52 pm

I can solve 7х7х7 by fifteen ways. One of these ways  layer by layer.


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Door

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:45 am Location: New Zealand

I solve my 3x3x3 different ways depending on what I feel like. Sometimes I will want to solve it fast, and so do the first two layers at the same time intuitively, and the last layer with memorized algorithms. If I just want to solve it without worrying about time, I will do something different  layer by layer, corners first, edges first, opposite sides then the middle, or something else. The 4x4x47x7x7 I usually use the reduction method. Other times I will solve it layer by layer, edges and corners first, or a mix of the two. Mark
_________________ My Shapeways Shop!
Tony Fisher wrote: A rare puzzle is one that is only lightly cooked.
Kelvin Stott wrote: Squiggle is such a funny word to say out loud. Squiggle! I am with Frank's Family


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Derek Tolley

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:58 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:22 pm

I've attempted to solve my 7x7 layer by layer off and on ever since I got it during the first release. I just can't figure out how to pair up the edges of the last layer. Am I missing something obvious?


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Steveo

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:12 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:37 pm Location: Canada

Nope That's the part that took me months to figure out!
_________________


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Kapusta

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:14 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:06 pm Location: Nowhere in particular.

Derek Tolley wrote: I've attempted to solve my 7x7 layer by layer off and on ever since I got it during the first release. I just can't figure out how to pair up the edges of the last layer. Am I missing something obvious? Dan Cohen recently posted a tutorial on last layer commutators for solving 4x4 edges in k4. Would this serve any use? I'm going to try it out myself after I finish with BLD.
_________________ ~Kapusta
PB: At home (In Competition) 2x2 1.xx (2.88) 3x3 11.xx (15.81) 4x4 1:18.26 (1:24.63) 5x5 (3:00.02) 6x6 4:26.05 (6:34.68) 7x7 6:38.74 (9:48.81) OH (35.63)
Current Goals: 7x7 sub 6:30 4x4 sub 1:10


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pytlivyj_1

Post subject: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:28 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:52 pm

2 Derek TolleyUse intermediate turns of external layers. For example: 1. (l' U2)*2 F2 l' F2 r U2 r' U2 l2 = A2. B' U R' U' (A) U R U' B3. R' U R U' (A) U R' U' R4. R B (A) B' R'


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GuiltyBystander

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:52 am 

Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 4:58 pm Location: Vancouver, Washington

I'm curious @people that solve row by row. Do you solve it that way because you never learned the reduction method, or because you know the reduction method but like rows better?
_________________ Real name: Landon Kryger


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Derek Tolley

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:57 am 

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:22 pm

pytlivyj_1 wrote: 2 Derek Tolley
Use intermediate turns of external layers. For example:
1. (l' U2)*2 F2 l' F2 r U2 r' U2 l2 = A 2. B' U R' U' (A) U R U' B 3. R' U R U' (A) U R' U' R 4. R B (A) B' R' Wow thanks. This may sound really stupid but what does the (A) mean exactly? I've never been one to really get into notations my solving abilities are mostly self learned.


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TomZ

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:36 am 

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:47 am Location: near Utrecht, Netherlands


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pytlivyj_1

Post subject: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:41 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:52 pm

2 Derek Tolley
"А"  this designation of the first algorithm. That each time it to not copy anew.
2 GuiltyBystander
To solve a cube by different ways is a hobby, logic thinking, training of memory and entertainment. Really it is not clear?


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NType3

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:29 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:48 am

I generally solve my 1x1x8 row by row. Oh, and I also solve my helicopter cube rowbyrow too.
But seriously, 3x3 is the only one I solve like that. The rest of the time, it's 3x3 reduction on high order XxXxX puzzles. If I had a cuboid, I'd probably solve it by reducing it to a lowerorder cuboid.
_________________ ++Noah (NType3 here, Emrakul elsewhere)
Moderator for Puzzling Stack Exchange  a new site for specific puzzling questions!


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GuiltyBystander

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:33 pm 

Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 4:58 pm Location: Vancouver, Washington

pytlivyj_1 wrote: To solve a cube by different ways is a hobby, logic thinking, training of memory and entertainment. Really it is not clear? I understand wanting to learn new methods just to learn new methods. I'm not sure everyone here falls under that category. I've only ever known the reduction method and it seems like the simplest/most intuitive way and was curious why people choose row by row as their predominate solving method.
_________________ Real name: Landon Kryger


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Derek Tolley

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:37 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:22 pm

TomZ wrote: Derek, he defined A on the first list item. It's an arbitrary sequence. So it was a stupid question.


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Derek Tolley

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:44 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:22 pm

Just wanted to say, I've solved my 7x7 now a handful of times row by row. Its painfully slow but its really quite cool to see the scrambled chaos come together this way, I dig it.


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bruckhorn

Post subject: Re: Does anyone else solve all their nxnxn's row by row? Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:49 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:52 pm Location: The Left Coast, USA

Way back when... circa 1981 when I got my first cube, I did solve it on my own. A few months later I bought a book with a solution and learned that method. When the revenge came out, I tried to solve it on my own (%$&! parity), but eventually got a book on how to solve that and the moves in that book are the ones that I primarily use today.
Prior to the Vcubes coming out, I solved the 3cube layer by layer (and still do), and the 4 and 5 cubes top layer, edges, bottom corners, bottom edges, fix parity (if needed), and then centers. I believe that it would be described as "birdcage", or at least a variant.
Once the Vcubes came out (and I started perusing this website), I tried 20 solves birdcage and 20 solves centers first reduction. Birdcage had parity 25% more of the time. Not enough of a sample size to provide a definitive answer on which process is less likely to produce parity, but large enough (for me) to at least indicate. Since then, I have started to do the centers intuitively. Before the release of the Vcubes, it took me 1215 minutes to solve a mid90's Meffert's 5cube and now it takes me 68 minutes to solve a V5; and that is without having to learn any new moves just reordering them.
On occasion I still solve the bigger cubes layer by layer, just for a change of pace. And, perhaps for a sip from the ol' nostalgia jar.
I find it curious, the use of "normal" and "traditional" to describe solving methods. If you have a method that works for you, then that's your normal, traditional method. If you want to learn a new method, go ahead. If you don't, that's okay, too. To quote an old professor of mine: "Enjoy the process."
_________________ "I was born to speak all mirth and no matter."  Wm. Shakespeare


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