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 Post subject: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:45 am 
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Hey guys,
i started to solve the pyraminx crystal i met the "flip" problem.
i need 1 algoritem to change this edge with this edge without a "flip".


Thanks!

Geender


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 Post subject: Re: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:21 am 
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Your picture looks a bit blurred, but from what I can recognize there are several edges still not at the right location and correctly oriented, right? Why do you not place other edges first? If you insist, doing the one you have indicated first, whithout flipping, just flip it twice: bring it to the right flipped and do that again. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:32 am 
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I have to agree with konsassen. I wouldn't worry about getting a "bad case" until I had solved all edges so that there's only unsolved edges on one single face. I actually don't know any specific commutators for fixing difficult cases on the Pyraminx Crystal, as I've found that most of them can be fixed rather easily by repeating a simple 3-cycle of the edges.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:07 am 
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its in my 3 layer...

how am i flipp it!?


Geender


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 Post subject: Re: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:35 am 
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Here is an example for a simple 3 cycle, Katten has mentioned:

Image

If you are having more problems with the edges you may look up Jaap's solution here

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 Post subject: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:50 am 
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Geender wrote:
Hey guys,
i started to solve the pyraminx crystal i met the "flip" problem.
i need 1 algoritem to change this edge with this edge without a "flip".


Thanks!

Geender

Image

Violet - F, orange - R, dark green - L, red - D.

Rotate so: (D2 R D' R' D) (L R' L' R) (D' R D R' D'')

The explanatories to algorithm of a 3-cycle:
1. Intermediate rotations: (D2 R D' R' D);
2. The basic rotations: (L R' L' R);
3. Intermediate rotations in the return order: (D' R D R' D'').

Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:54 pm 
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Setup moves make your life difficult. (In this case 5 moves). I find myself often not remembering setup moves when it comes to inversing them. Try to do as many edges as possible without too many setup moves.
Good luck! :)

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Last edited by Konrad on Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:24 pm 
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Geender wrote:
its in my 3 layer...

how am i flipp it!?


Geender
Hi Geender, it's actually impossible to flip just a single edge without also flipping another edge because of an orientation parity restriction on face-turning puzzles like the Pyraminx Crystal.

To flip two edges, there was a discussion about how to do it here. You can flip two edges on the same face across from each other in only 8 moves via [F], [C2,G'2,C2], [F'], [C'2,G2,C'2] (Gelatinbrain's notation).

I haven't proved that this is an optimal sequence but I'm almost certain that it is.

As everybody else has said, you should probably solve the edges top-down until only the 5 edges in the last layer remain before worrying about specific orientation fixing routines.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:29 am 
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I personally find it easier to do the corners as you go along with the edges. That way, you're not just restricted to simple 4 move algorithms, but can move around instead. And I think you say that it has a parity is like saying that there's partity on a 3x3x3 when there are 2 edges swapped.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:28 pm 
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pytlivyj_1 wrote:
Geender wrote:
Hey guys,
i started to solve the pyraminx crystal i met the "flip" problem.
i need 1 algoritem to change this edge with this edge without a "flip".


Thanks!

Geender

Image

Violet - F, orange - R, dark green - L, red - D.

Rotate so: (D2 R D' R' D) (L R' L' R) (D' R D R' D'')

The explanatories to algorithm of a 3-cycle:
1. Intermediate rotations: (D2 R D' R' D);
2. The basic rotations: (L R' L' R);
3. Intermediate rotations in the return order: (D' R D R' D'').

Good luck!


wow its really helpfull! thank you! can you give another algoritem for 2 last edeges flip?

Thanks Guys!!


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 Post subject: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:03 pm 
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Image

Last two edges I develop by the same way:

1. At first I make a 3-cycle (L R' L' R) or (R' L R L') depending on a situation. Thus I use an additional third edge of the top side as intermediate.
2. Then I develop an edge which is on a place of an intermediate third edge with the help of additional rotations (5 moves).
3. I make a 3-cycle on item 1 in the return order.
4. I make additional rotations on item 2 in the return order.

About the same order of rotations as in previous my answer.

With the help of algorithm (L R 'L' R) [or (R' L R L')] I solve all edges of a pyraminx crystal. Any other methods and algorithms I do not remember and I do not use.


Last edited by pytlivyj_1 on Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:11 pm 
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For that case there is quite a simple algorithm, which you shouldn't need to know the notation for, but anyways:

Hold one edge on the UF and the other on the UR position, and then perform R'2 D' R2 L2 D' L'2 U L2 D L'2 R'2 D R2 U'.

PS: D is the opposite site to U. I'm referring to the very bottom side of the puzzle.

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3x3x3 single: 5.73 seconds.
3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds.
3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.

Buy the Curvy Copter Skewb, NovaMinx, and more here!


Last edited by Luke on Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:21 pm 
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Hi, SEBUVER. To remember difficult algorithms it is necessary only for a high-speed method. And so these algorithms are not necessary. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:26 pm 
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This algorithm isn't difficult at all. In notation terms, it looks complex, but if you try it out on the puzzle, you will see how and what pieces move, it's quite easy to remember.

_________________
3x3x3 single: 5.73 seconds.
3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds.
3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.

Buy the Curvy Copter Skewb, NovaMinx, and more here!


Last edited by Luke on Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:36 am 
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Hi, SEBUVER. Algorithm R ' 2 D ' R2 L2 D 'L' 2 U L2 D L ' 2 R ' 2 D R2 U ' actually very good. :D Only you should write to it the note that the bottom (D) is opposite to top (U) and does not border with L and R!!! That is not as we have got used to rotations on a megaminx. Differently this algorithm is carried out in several ways and results in impasse.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:39 am 
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Glad it worked out. It looks complex, but you can see how it moves the pieces and see that there's a pattern to the algorithm.

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3x3x3 single: 5.73 seconds.
3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds.
3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:30 am 
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2 last edges flip

R L' R' L - U 2' - L' R L R' - U2 - L R L' R'


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Last edited by Chilen on Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:17 pm 
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Some more examples.

Image

Algorithm for figure 1: (R'' D' R2 L2 D' L'') U (L2 D L'' R'' D R2) U' - algorithm A1;
Algorithm for figure 2: (R'' D' R2 L2 D' L'') U2 (L2 D L'' R'' D R2) U'' - algorithm A2.

Image

Algorithm for figure 1: (R' L R L') y'' A2;
Algorithm for figure 2: (L R' L' R) A2;
Algorithm for figure 3: (R' L R L') y'' (L R' L' R) y'' A2.

Similarly we rearrange 4 or 5 pieces of edges of last top layer in any combinations.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me solve the pyraminx crystal.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:32 pm 
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Hi, SEBUVER. Algorithm R ' 2 D ' R2 L2 D 'L' 2 U L2 D L ' 2 R ' 2 D R2 U ' is very good and easy to memorize.
How did you find it?

By the way, I found another algorithm.
R'2 D2 R2 D'2 - L2 D'2 L'2 D2


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