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 Post subject: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:55 am 
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Last night I decided to try and solve my 4x4x4 layer by layer, instead of the usual reduction and 3x3x3 afterwards. I successfully managed to do this and had a ton of fun along the way. I quite enjoyed solving it this way and therefore I pass the challenge on to anyone who wants :D In case there's some confusion on what a layer by layer method looks like, I have an illustration:
Attachment:
rubiks-revenge illutrasjon.jpg
rubiks-revenge illutrasjon.jpg [ 18.58 KiB | Viewed 2375 times ]
Where each color represents each layer: layer 1, layer 2 etc. This challenge has no limitations other than the fact that you have to solve it layer by layer. How you do that however is all up to you.

Have fun! :D

Also, for those who enjoy this as much as I do: try doing it the same way for the 5x5x5.


Last edited by Katja on Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:48 am 
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I dont know about a perfect layers method, but try this:

solve centers, then f3l, then last layer. I find it quite fun!! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:02 am 
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Well. Cage is kinda layer by layer. Only that the 2 middle layers edges are done in no particular order. I was close to 1 minute avg with this in my heyday many yrs ago. Now my speed is quite bad :wink:

Per

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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:28 am 
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I solve all of my cubes except for the 3x3 in a method close to that. I solve 2 opposite centers, then corners, then those layer edges. After, I solve the rest of the edges, then final 4 centers. I don't speed solve, so I've never hand the need to learn another method. I can apply this method to any size nxnxn cube and solve it.


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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:12 am 
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Doubleyou wrote:
solve centers, then f3l, then last layer. I find it quite fun!!
I use a similar approach to solve higher order dodecahedra, actually :D
Lykwid wrote:
I solve all of my cubes except for the 3x3 in a method close to that. I solve 2 opposite centers, then corners, then those layer edges. After, I solve the rest of the edges, then final 4 centers. I don't speed solve, so I've never hand the need to learn another method. I can apply this method to any size nxnxn cube and solve it.
I think, if I understood correctly, that this is very similar to how I first solved the 4x4x4 a few years ago. I quickly replaced it with reduction and learned Friedrich to solve the 3x3x3 part to be able to speedsolve it. If the method you're talking about is anything like the one I used, some of the commutators are the same as in this layer by layer method. So you may find that it's not that hard to do :D
perfredlund wrote:
Well. Cage is kinda layer by layer. Only that the 2 middle layers edges are done in no particular order. I was close to 1 minute avg with this in my heyday many yrs ago. Now my speed is quite bad :wink:

Per
Cage method? I think I'll have to Google that :D I'm thinking about learning a new 4x4x4 method for speedsolving, as I'm never improving with reduction it seems.


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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:29 pm 
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Lykwid wrote:
I solve all of my cubes except for the 3x3 in a method close to that. I solve 2 opposite centers, then corners, then those layer edges. After, I solve the rest of the edges, then final 4 centers. I don't speed solve, so I've never hand the need to learn another method. I can apply this method to any size nxnxn cube and solve it.

Katten, I used to like to play with different methods on big cubes. Layer by layer. Or start with a column and work out from there. Or make a 2x2x2, then expand to a 3x3x3, then to a 4x4x4, and so on. But in the end I am with Lykwid. Now I also solve them this way.

Lykwid, have you tried adapting this method to solve the Crazy 4x4x4 II? I shared in the recent thread on solving the Crazy II that konsassen started.

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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:05 pm 
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I've tried solving opposite centers, then cross edges, then the rest of the centers, then f2l/f3l edges, which can be done with a modification to the insert for a 3x3. After that, I could most likely finish it, if I knew an algorithm to swap two opposite edge wings... Anyone know how I could do this? (What I mean is swapping the F edge wing that's touching the FUR corner with the opposite edge wing.)

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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:22 pm 
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Katten wrote:
Last night I decided to try and solve my 4x4x4 layer by layer, instead of the usual reduction and 3x3x3 afterwards. I successfully managed to do this and had a ton of fun along the way. I quite enjoyed solving it this way and therefore I pass the challenge on to anyone who wants :D


Did this years ago ... oops, did I just let on that I'm an old-timer??? :)

There are numerous variations on this that I've tried: 3x3x3 solve edges first, then corners; or solve "hexagonal ring" first, then build outward from that (this was a bit contrived). Basically, if you know how to make 3-cycles using commutators, then you can place the cubies in any order you wish. For the layer-by-layer approach, that seems to defeat the purpose, or take the fun out of it.

Then there are restricted movements: turn only two adjacent faces (this is a bandaged cube, bandaged 2x2x3 block) or two adjacent faces and corresponding slices (bandaged 1x1x3 block) or turn only two adjacent faces and the sliced corresponding to one of them (bandaged 1x2x3 block). Some others: Turn only three faces (two different types); make half-turns only. Make only "magic domino" turns; i.e. on R-L and F-B axes, only half turns are allowed, but 90 degree turns are allowed on the U-D axis. I did these on my V6 and V7 recently (not much harder than on 4x4x4).

One that I tried recently that I found a bit harder than expected:
half-turns only on Crazy 4x4x4 II.


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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:16 am 
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Michael Reid wrote:
One that I tried recently that I found a bit harder than expected:
half-turns only on Crazy 4x4x4 II.


OK, I think you took it a bit far... :lol:
Next you're going to try and do just double turns on the Teraminx!

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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:26 am 
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SEBUVER wrote:
Michael Reid wrote:
One that I tried recently that I found a bit harder than expected:
half-turns only on Crazy 4x4x4 II.


OK, I think you took it a bit far... :lol:
Next you're going to try and do just double turns on the Teraminx!


Speaking of Teraminx I tried to solve it using only quintuple turns: U5 U5' etc...

It's easier than I expected :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:40 am 
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Michael Reid wrote:
Basically, if you know how to make 3-cycles using commutators, then you can place the cubies in any order you wish.
Yes, this is useful knowledge for all puzzle solving. For my fist 4x4x4 solve I came up with this commutator:

r' u' r U' r' u r U

Where the lower cased letters represent slice moves. It's not efficient, seeing as it only moves two pieces at a time. But it can also be adapted to moving 4 pieces at a time.

I think I used to have some 3-cycles for the 4x4x4 as well, but it seems I can't recall any of them.

Also, for solves with restricted moves: the Crazy 4x4x4 II using only half-turns? That's insane :lol: How much time did you spend doing that?


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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:01 am 
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Katten wrote:
Michael Reid wrote:
Basically, if you know how to make 3-cycles using commutators, then you can place the cubies in any order you wish.
Yes, this is useful knowledge for all puzzle solving. For my fist 4x4x4 solve I came up with this commutator:

r' u' r U' r' u r U

Where the lower cased letters represent slice moves. It's not efficient, seeing as it only moves two pieces at a time. But it can also be adapted to moving 4 pieces at a time. I think I used to have some 3-cycles for the 4x4x4 as well, but it seems I can't recall any of them.
That's a 3-cycle. It just has the bad habit of looking like a 2-swap when applied to a solved cube. :wink:
Katten wrote:

Also, for solves with restricted moves: the Crazy 4x4x4 II using only half-turns? That's insane :lol: How much time did you spend doing that?
Half-turns keeps the pieces in quite a few different orbits. It's pretty easy to come up with pure 2-2 swaps to solve one orbit at a time. I solve corners first, then edges, then centers. I haven't done it on the Crazy 4x4x4 II but I have done it on an Eastsheen Super-4x4x4.

I really enjoy half-turn-only scrambles. Gelatinbrain's 5.2.x series of edge-turning Tetrahedrons are very closely related to half-turn-scrambled cubes.

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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:47 am 
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bmenrigh wrote:
That's a 3-cycle. It just has the bad habit of looking like a 2-swap when applied to a solved cube.
I feel quite silly now, of course it is. Thanks for correcting my faulty explanation, Brandon. This does cycle 3 pieces, but from a solved state it swaps two of the same color, making it hard to see the third swap. I really should stop posting 5 minutes after I get up in the morning :lol:
bmenrigh wrote:
I really enjoy half-turn-only scrambles. Gelatinbrain's 5.2.x series of edge-turning Tetrahedrons are very closely related to half-turn-scrambled cubes.
Actually, those are becoming my favorites up on Gelatinbrain. They are very fun to solve :D


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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:07 pm 
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I've tried this so many times... AND FAILED!!! :(


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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:28 pm 
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puzzlesmith wrote:
I've tried this so many times... AND FAILED!!! :(
If you are referring to the 5.2.x puzzles, I had a lot of trouble with them at first too. I spend 3 hours or so figuring out techniques and then slowly applying those techniques to different 5.2.x puzzles to see what they'd do.

I ended up solving them all. It wasn't until the end that I had enough routines under my belt to solve any variant or size. I wrote a hint-guide here.

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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:48 pm 
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My only method for NxNxN cubes of any size is LBL.
When I first figured out my 4x4x4 and 5x5x5, it was with LBL (I made it up completely by myself, it took months, all I had solved before then was a 3x3x3!). I still use the exact same method still, but it's turned into something more like: First side/ layer, middle layer, last layer.
I also use my method for my 7x7x7, and have used it for a virtual 10x10x10
:)

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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:30 am 
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Another half-turn-only puzzle I overlooked: Master Pyramorphinx. So it keeps the puzzle in its original shape. Not hard, but still fun. :)

Katten wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
I really enjoy half-turn-only scrambles. Gelatinbrain's 5.2.x series of edge-turning Tetrahedrons are very closely related to half-turn-scrambled cubes.
Actually, those are becoming my favorites up on Gelatinbrain. They are very fun to solve :D


Hmmm ... haven't really tried them much, but I will soon. Sleep is over-rated anyway!


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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:42 am 
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Michael Reid wrote:
Master Pyramorphinx. So it keeps the puzzle in its original shape. Not hard, but still fun.
That one is a lot like the first 5.2.x puzzle, so if you can solve that one, you can solve a few others as well. I'm actually waiting for an order from Meffert's, including a Master Pyramorphinx :D Can't wait to get to solve the shape-shifting version also.

Sleep? That word is not a part of my vocabulary :D


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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:54 am 
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Steveo wrote:
My only method for NxNxN cubes of any size is LBL.When I first figured out my 4x4x4 and 5x5x5, it was with LBL (I made it up completely by myself, it took months, all I had solved before then was a 3x3x3!). I still use the exact same method still, but it's turned into something more like: First side/ layer, middle layer, last layer.I also use my method for my 7x7x7, and have used it for a virtual 10x10x10
The highest order puzzle I've applied the LBL method to, is the 6x6x6. I did start on it on the 7x7x7 once, but by the time I'd gotten halfway it wasn't as fun anymore. Maybe because this isn't my main method and therefore takes a lot of time to apply. Great job on the 10x10x10 solve with this. I have solved a virtual 12x12x12, but for that I used reduction.


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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:54 am 
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Katten wrote:
The highest order puzzle I've applied the LBL method to, is the 6x6x6. I did start on it on the 7x7x7 once, but by the time I'd gotten halfway it wasn't as fun anymore. Maybe because this isn't my main method and therefore takes a lot of time to apply. Great job on the 10x10x10 solve with this. I have solved a virtual 12x12x12, but for that I used reduction.

Now I want to scramble my V-cube 7 and try to solve it layer by layer, just for the challenge. Who says you have to do it all at once? How about a layer a day? :D

Edit: OK, so I did 3 layers the first day and 4 layers today. Lots of 3-cycles today!

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Last edited by robertpauljr on Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Layer by layer method on the 4x4x4 - challenge
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:22 pm 
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Katten wrote:
Michael Reid wrote:
Master Pyramorphinx. So it keeps the puzzle in its original shape. Not hard, but still fun.
That one is a lot like the first 5.2.x
And identical to 5.2.3 :wink:.

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