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 Post subject: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:57 am 
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:shock: :shock: :shock:
I enjoyed the curvy copter so much that a few months ago I took the plunge and ordered a Master Curvy Copter from Eitan. It arrived and I drooled over it for a day or so and eventually conquered my fear and did a non-jumbling scramble.

I've been at it for 3-4 months now and getting absolutely nowhere. I keep re-scrambling bits by accident. But I've been happy pottering about even if I have no clue! Today, I showed some friends how it worked including the jumbling moves and lost track of what I had done! :shock: I ended up with a jumbled inner layer and considerable chest pain and a terrible feeling of foreboding! It has taken me a couple of hours of work to finally get it back to cubic shape!

I suspect that it is now in a position with pieces out of orbit! Now I'm in trouble! I was doubtful I could solve it without jumbling and reckon now there's no chance!

Does anyone have any suggestions for an approach to this rather formidable puzzle? i.e. HELP!

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:00 am 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
Does anyone have any suggestions for an approach to this rather formidable puzzle? i.e. HELP!

Yes. Send it to me and I'll have a look for you. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:16 am 
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rline wrote:
Puzzlemad wrote:
Does anyone have any suggestions for an approach to this rather formidable puzzle? i.e. HELP!

Yes. Send it to me and I'll have a look for you. 8-)


Hah! Never an opportunity missed, Rline.

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:03 am 
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Don't sweat too much about it Kevin.. I was a bit worried about that at first too. But, if you're reducing it to a Curvy Copter, you won't come across anything more stressful than a jumbled solve on the Curvy Copter itself after the reduction, as far as orbits go.

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:28 am 
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Burgo wrote:
Don't sweat too much about it Kevin.. I was a bit worried about that at first too. But, if you're reducing it to a Curvy Copter, you won't come across anything more stressful than a jumbled solve on the Curvy Copter itself after the reduction, as far as orbits go.

Ah! That's good to know! So far I've been trying to do it layer by layer. I'll switch to reduction from now.

rline wrote:
Yes. Send it to me and I'll have a look for you. 8-)

Nice try Rline!!! :lol:
I'll think about it!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:44 am 
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Just let me know if you want some sequences or a solving order or something, I've talked privately to Brandon about it, but never posted anything I don't think.

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PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:10 am 
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Hey, what are you talking about? Jumble curvy copters aren't stressful!

They're easy 8-)

Though there are some orbit situations on the last layer that require 2 orbit swaps. Those are a tiny bit annoying.

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:35 am 
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rubikcollector123 wrote:
Hey, what are you talking about? Jumble curvy copters aren't stressful!

They're easy 8-)

Though there are some orbit situations on the last layer that require 2 orbit swaps. Those are a tiny bit annoying.

Thanks for that very helpful comment! :shock:
I do indeed find the fully jumbled curvy copter a real stress RELIEVER! It is easy!!!
But I'm not talking about the ordinary version I mean the MASTER version - this is horrendous:

Image

Here it is after a single inner layer jumble:

Image

Although thanks to Burgo, I do seem to be getting somewhere at last!

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:38 pm 
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I do a pseudo-reduction for the unjumbling portion. I try to pair up the same jumbling shape for the outer layer with the inner layer so that the jumbling is the same as Curvy Copter jumbling. Once I form a pair I resolve the pair together just like you'd do on the Curvy Copter. I call this a pseudo-reduction because I don't ALWAYS form pairs and I resolve the pairs one at a time rather than fully pairing up the jumbling and then solving the reduced Curvy Copter jumbling.

I think the MCC jumbling is more intimidating than it is hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:56 pm 
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I've never handled one of these and this is just a conjecture, but I believe you can confirm the orbits by placing the individual types of pieces and making sure it's all cohesive (i.e. Place all inner petals to see that they're cohesive and then do this again with the outers)

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:29 pm 
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my approach for new puzzles is to try different commutators on the solved puzzle.
so why not disassembling and reassembling the cube and start from the very beginning?


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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:39 pm 
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Why I would try to do is reduce the outer layer to match the inner layer, and then use the double-layer turns to solve the rest of the puzzle like a normal curvy copter. I'm still far away from having the funds, but that's what I would do. I'm pretty sure that's what Burgo meant when he said reduction.

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:41 pm 
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BelcherBoy2000 wrote:
Why I would try to do is reduce the outer layer to match the inner layer, and then use the double-layer turns to solve the rest of the puzzle like a normal curvy copter. I'm still far away from having the funds, but that's what I would do. I'm pretty sure that's what Burgo meant when he said reduction.

Yep! I have been working on it for a very long time now!!! :shock:
Commutators aren't really easy on edge turning cubes because there are few areas of overlap!

I have begun reducing it and have actually managed to reduce and solve the entire bottom half now! But I am finding that there is not enough room left on the top half to reduce the puzzle further! It's bed time now! Need to sleep on it - maybe I'll wake up having had a brain wave! I doubt that very much! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:57 pm 
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A great tactic is to do what you're doing.. and then use the `bottom` solved half to determine your sequences. I much prefer to scramble a new puzzle and start from scratch.. good on you Kevin, for having the gumption to do that, philosophically, I think that's what puzzles are about :) .

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:06 pm 
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Burgo wrote:
A great tactic is to do what you're doing.. and then use the `bottom` solved half to determine your sequences. I much prefer to scramble a new puzzle and start from scratch.. good on you Kevin, for having the gumption to do that, philosophically, I think that's what puzzles are about :) .

Did everyone hear the hysterical shout form the Midlands of the UK?

Eitan's Master curvy copter is finally solved after several months of trying!
I solved the entire bottom half by intuition and some fairly complex sequences to make bits safe whilst I moved others in! Then I must thank Burgo for his pm which told me which groups of pieces to work on in which order. I managed to reduce the centres of the MCC also by intuition!

Finally, again using Burgo's advice I worked on reducing the corners - what an ordeal! I was very careful not to read his suggested commutators but did do exactly as he suggested - I flipped it over and played with the completed half. Well everyone, this complete newbie ( :lol: ) has managed to design his own simple commutators - I did it by explaining to a colleague what a commutator meant and showing him on a 3x3 and then inventing one right in front of him on the MCC! He now thinks I'm a complete genius!

Thanks also to TheCubingKyle - his recent blog post gave me a very nice way to rotate 2 corners. This made the solve much easier than using my technique which rotates 3 corners at a time!

I now have the irresistible urge to scramble it again and do it all over! But then there's the crazy2face kit calling too! Plus I need to buy an Eitan's star!

This has really given me an appetitive for another special Shapeways twisty - what do you suggest as my next challenge?

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:29 pm 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
I flipped it over and played with the completed half. Well everyone, this complete newbie ( :lol: ) has managed to design his own simple commutators - I did it by explaining to a colleague what a commutator meant and showing him on a 3x3 and then inventing one right in front of him on the MCC! He now thinks I'm a complete genius!
It's addictive, isn't it? I love the thrill of a new solve. Congratulations on getting the best of this puzzle!

Puzzlemad wrote:
This has really given me an appetitive for another special Shapeways twisty - what do you suggest as my next challenge?
All of the Helicopter Cube related puzzles are a lot of fun. Will has the Copter 3x3x3. Eric has the Unbandaged Helicopter Cube. TomZ has the CC+ and Helicopter Skewb and Unbandaged Helicopter Skewb. They're all a ton of fun.

I really like Will's Copter 3x3x3 because it lends itself to very efficient and creative sequences. I solve the puzzle via reduction to a 3x3x3 using mostly [1:1] and [1:[1:1]] conjugates rather than commutators. It's a tricky puzzle to assemble though. I had a lot of trouble with mine for various reasons. The inner 3x3x3 core is really small and there are some gotchas to assembly.

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:45 pm 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
Did everyone hear the hysterical shout from the Midlands of the UK?

Eitan's Master curvy copter is finally solved after several months of trying!

Congratulations Kevin. That's a job well done ! :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:06 pm 
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Woohoo! Congrats Kevin! Perhaps a video tutorial can now be arranged? I've scrambled my MCC+ (so far no jumbling so it's just an MCC at this point), but I have yet to solve it without the use of a screwdriver.

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:47 pm 
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Solved within 48 hours of starting this topic. Hmmmm. I guess posting about your troubles helped you solve it. I should try that strategy for some of my unsolved puzzles!! :lol:

Puzzlemad wrote:
I now have the irresistible urge to scramble it again and do it all over! But then there's the crazy2face kit calling too! Plus I need to buy an Eitan's star!


You should buy one and we can race to a solution! I scrambled mine but haven't given even minor thought to solving it. I'm still in the "ohhhhh - so pretty!" phase of ownership.

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:05 am 
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themathkid wrote:
Solved within 48 hours of starting this topic. Hmmmm. I guess posting about your troubles helped you solve it. I should try that strategy for some of my unsolved puzzles!! :lol:

It wasn't the posting that made a difference! It was the perfect perfect hints given by Burgo that did it! I didn't even need to read the algorithms he gave me! Just 2 little bits of information got me over the hump! Plus a massive final effort! :lol:

themathkid wrote:
You should buy one and we can race to a solution! I scrambled mine but haven't given even minor thought to solving it. I'm still in the "ohhhhh - so pretty!" phase of ownership.

Race? I fully expect it to take several months! You see I'm not terribly bright! In fact I'm so dim that I'm about to scramble again and this time with full jumbling moves out of orbit - although not shapeshifting! I'm not that dim! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Eitan's Master Curvy Copter is going to shorten my life!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:52 pm 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
Just 2 little bits of information got me over the hump!

Ah, That's how I was with the Rex Cube. I could not figure out which order I wanted to do the pieces in or why I wasn't finding any commutators that were pure or algorithms affecting only one piece type until someone told me to view the corner as the front instead of the face, and suddenly I could solve it!

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