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To solve or not to solve...
Solve an unknown twistypuzzle 83%  83%  [ 15 ]
Solve a known puzzle millions of times 17%  17%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 18
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 Post subject: To solve a puzzle or your life...?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:25 pm 
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Hehe ok been watching SAW and waiting in anticipation of the next one...

but it got me thinking....

say you were in a similar situation, where you had to find a way to get out or it would cost you your life... the choices being:

1)You have to solve a twisty puzzle, but it's incredibly difficult to solve, and it's of an unknown nature to any puzzler/collector. And there is no easy solve - it's a stage by stage solution which will take some time.

2) Solve a puzzle you know best, but you would have to solve it a few million times - which could take years.

Also time is irrevelant, but it is still time on YOUR life.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:42 pm 
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I am always up for an unknown challenge! ;)




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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:22 pm 
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I'd much rather try my hands at an unknown puzzle. If it turns out I can't solve it I think I would prefer having a bear trap slice through my carotid arteries rather than waste years and years solving a puzzle millions of times. Though I'm confident to say some speedcubers out there already do that!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:24 am 
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I would hate solving even a 1x1x2 a million times, as easy as it is. :P

Unknown puzzle. It'd be faster. :P


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:32 am 
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Swordsman Kirby wrote:
I would hate solving even a 1x1x2 a million times, as easy as it is. :P

Unknown puzzle. It'd be faster. :P



hehe not necessarily... it's an unknown puzzle with a very rare and unknown soution. difficulty based on 10, it'd be a 20! hehe it'll incredibly hard to solve - very difficult, but there is a solution. so i wouldn't bank on solving it and be out in time for dinner.

hehe keep them responses coming, interested in what people would solve :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:56 pm 
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Well, since you didn't set a time limit it's really a choice between spending a few years solving one puzzle over and over again and a few years solving a puzzle noone has ever solved before. I think the second option is a lot more appealing. If you don't fell like tackling the problem one day, you just don't, maybe you'll get a better idea the next day. With the first choice you would end up trying to beat yourself on the number of solves per day or something. Definitely more stressing.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:22 pm 
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:lol: you could always try to take the unknown puzzle apart. You only got to solve it once :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:27 pm 
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I would rather solve the familliar puzzle a few million times....

On another note, I think the "unknown puzzle" that would cause the most horror in the eyes of us cubers would have to be the 5x5x5x5 4D hypercube.

Am I dreaming or did someone create a 5D 3x3x3x3x3 applet?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:18 pm 
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Here are my $.02. I know that I read some where on speedcubing.com that I think 3 people solved for a total of somewhere around 300,000 cubes in 24 hour time frame. What I'm trying to say is that you may only need a month time frame to solved 1 puzzle a 1,000,000 time(thats not including C.T.S.)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:35 pm 
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Quinn Lewis wrote:
I would rather solve the familliar puzzle a few million times....

On another note, I think the "unknown puzzle" that would cause the most horror in the eyes of us cubers would have to be the 5x5x5x5 4D hypercube.

Am I dreaming or did someone create a 5D 3x3x3x3x3 applet?


Hypercube? I have heard the term numerous times, but what does it mean.

About the 5D, I think someone wrote here about it, and I misunderstood and thought they were talking about a "new version" or something of the "4th dimension Rubik's Cube". The oone where you have to align the centers too.
Oh, and when speaking about that one, are all centers accuired to have correct alignment, or is it just some of them? If the last case, how are "the required" ones orientated, as opposed to the ones not needing accurate alignment...


I guess I would choose the unknown, as somebody pointed out, no timeframe is present, and in the words of Pantazis
Quote:
I am always up for an unknown challenge


Last edited by Haara on Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:36 pm 
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Quinn Lewis wrote:
I would rather solve the familliar puzzle a few million times....

On another note, I think the "unknown puzzle" that would cause the most horror in the eyes of us cubers would have to be the 5x5x5x5 4D hypercube.

Am I dreaming or did someone create a 5D 3x3x3x3x3 applet?


Is this the program/applet you were talking about?
Image

Darren Grewe wrote:
Here are my $.02. I know that I read some where on speedcubing.com that I think 3 people solved for a total of somewhere around 300,000 cubes in 24 hour time frame. What I'm trying to say is that you may only need a month time frame to solved 1 puzzle a 1,000,000 time(thats not including C.T.S.)



True I'm sure it's possible for them. But what about you Darren? It is meant for your own personal choice, not what's out there or what someone else has done.... also meaning that say for Stefan it would be solving a Megaminx rather than a 5x5x5 and Frank M would probably choose a 5x5x5 rather than a megaminx. So if you were to choose solving a puzzle over and over - it would be a puzzle you are most familiar with. - it's just a question to see what extreme you would rather pick ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:13 pm 
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Darren Grewe wrote:
Here are my $.02. I know that I read some where on speedcubing.com that I think 3 people solved for a total of somewhere around 300,000 cubes in 24 hour time frame. What I'm trying to say is that you may only need a month time frame to solved 1 puzzle a 1,000,000 time(thats not including C.T.S.)


The math doesn't add up. If you figure that someone solved 100,000 cubes in a 24 hour period, that's 4166 cubes an hour, or 69 cubes a minute, or about a cube every .87 seconds.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:06 pm 
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blogan wrote:
Darren Grewe wrote:
Here are my $.02. I know that I read some where on speedcubing.com that I think 3 people solved for a total of somewhere around 300,000 cubes in 24 hour time frame. What I'm trying to say is that you may only need a month time frame to solved 1 puzzle a 1,000,000 time(thats not including C.T.S.)


The math doesn't add up. If you figure that someone solved 100,000 cubes in a 24 hour period, that's 4166 cubes an hour, or 69 cubes a minute, or about a cube every .87 seconds.


I did find this on speedcubing.com just now but I still think 3 people solved over 100,000 cubes.

Rubik's 3x3x3 Cube 24 hours June 23/24, 2006 3,390 cubes


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:19 pm 
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Either way, for me as a non speedcuber... A 3x3x3 still takes me over 2 minutes... So with that calculation, I'd be long dead before I'd hit a million :(


I guess I would have to vote for the 'unknown puzzle'.... :P

I would hope to god that the capturer would allow trial and error to solve and not 1 chance to get it lol

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:02 pm 
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YES that is the 5D thing I was talking about.....insanity....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:58 am 
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reeeech wrote:
Either way, for me as a non speedcuber... A 3x3x3 still takes me over 2 minutes... So with that calculation, I'd be long dead before I'd hit a million :(


Choose Rubik's Magic then. Even with 10s per solve you would be out in under a year.

reeeech wrote:
I would hope to god that the capturer would allow trial and error to solve and not 1 chance to get it lol


That's the point: you can't say how many moves your "method" needs, so you can keep solving the puzzle until it's solved. Even if you know you were close to the solution and then had to mess it up again (for example to get rid of a parity error) you can just claim it to be part of your solution. It doesn't count as a failed attempt :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:14 am 
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Actually that adds up ten thousand cubes, not one hundred thousand. A million is far out of reach. Assuming you solved a cube every twenty seconds, then 231 days non-stop. That doesn't sound like fun, even over a couple years. :P


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:44 am 
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Considering a modest* amount of cubes per day, say 50-60, then you would have to keep going like that for around 50 years...


*Well, that might not be modest for me, but I guess that some of you who have good times in speedcubing does that amount of cubes, at least when acompetition is coming up...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:10 am 
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That's the dilema... solving something you know you can solve for sure, but you know it's going to take a long long long time to do.

or solve a puzzle, you may never be able to solve, but if you can it may (or may not) take as long as solving a known puzzle.

hehehehe :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:47 pm 
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solve 1 million times.

1,000 times a day on average would only take you 1,000 days to complete.Less then 3 years.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:42 pm 
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blogan wrote:
The math doesn't add up. If you figure that someone solved 100,000 cubes in a 24 hour period, that's 4166 cubes an hour, or 69 cubes a minute, or about a cube every .87 seconds.

That's not at all as ridiculous as you may think. I just solved my cube 56 times in ten seconds! I scrambled with R' and then repeated R2 R2', coming across the solved state quite often.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:52 pm 
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Stefan Pochmann wrote:
blogan wrote:
The math doesn't add up. If you figure that someone solved 100,000 cubes in a 24 hour period, that's 4166 cubes an hour, or 69 cubes a minute, or about a cube every .87 seconds.

That's not at all as ridiculous as you may think. I just solved my cube 56 times in ten seconds! I scrambled with R' and then repeated R2 R2', coming across the solved state quite often.

Good point!
But I guess the dilema presented here mean to solve from "ordinary" scramblings, of normal length...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:18 pm 
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ok, so this person who captured you is twisted, and incredibly smart to put all of this together. so NO, you can't get an easy cube to solve, no R R2 turns, no simple logistic loopholes.

---of course this person isn't me, I wouldn't be able to put together something that intricate :P

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:22 pm 
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funny thing about this topic is that it is not so crazy to do to someone who has no clue how to solve a rubik's cube.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:05 am 
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I am not sure, but I guess the point with the "unknown" puzzle is just that, that it is unknown and nobody can help you...

Had we done this to somebody with no idea about the cube, they might eventually have sought out a solution, either via internet, asking another person, or simply annoy us untill they get some help...
Wonder what kind of puzzle they would choose to solve a million times :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:21 am 
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Haara wrote:
Wonder what kind of puzzle they would choose to solve a million times :shock:

I would probably choose 3x3. If I solved it 400 times a day, it would probably take around 20 years. That would make me practise a lot!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:33 am 
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20 years of 400 solves a day?! your fingers would just snap off! lol.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:43 am 
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Johannes Laire wrote:
I would probably choose 3x3. If I solved it 400 times a day, it would probably take around 20 years. That would make me practise a lot!

How do you calculate 20 years? I get 7.

Btw, imagine... so you've solved a million cubes and you average like 10 seconds and you get out and you think you'll be like the cubing god winning all competitions and then you find out that people are faster than you with a very different method. Or that in the meantime, cubing died and nobody cares about it anymore.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:17 am 
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Stefan Pochmann wrote:
Johannes Laire wrote:
I would probably choose 3x3. If I solved it 400 times a day, it would probably take around 20 years. That would make me practise a lot!

How do you calculate 20 years? I get 7.

A few million times, not a million..

Stefan Pochmann wrote:
Btw, imagine... so you've solved a million cubes and you average like 10 seconds and you get out and you think you'll be like the cubing god winning all competitions and then you find out that people are faster than you with a very different method.

Then I'd be really interested in knowing what that method is!

Stefan Pochmann wrote:
Or that in the meantime, cubing died and nobody cares about it anymore.

I doubt that will happen. But if it did, I would just wait... Cubing would become popular again.


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 Post subject: SawCube
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:59 am 
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ok, having worked intel ops in Desert Storm 1 in the Marines as an interrogator/interpretor. I think you are missing a few points of the quandry.

Firstly, it would be something a little more than you sitting at home in your favorite chair rotating R2 R2 for a couple million times.

I would say more like. Having had no sleep for 3 days, no food, very little water, and having a time limit for each solve. these cubes would be piled at your feet, some would have stickers rearranged. Some would have a piece melted. Some would be restricted movement cubes. Some would require severe effort in order to make turns. Everytime you don't solve a cube at the time limit allowed, a digit is taken off, starting with your toes until you have only thumbs and index fingers left. Now that's a movie I'd go see. I think that Stefan Pochmann would do very well, since he has tarantula fingers, probably at least 5 digits per finger. (Could be on his toes as well) :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: SawCube
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:22 am 
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sexualRubiks wrote:
ok, having worked intel ops in Desert Storm 1 in the Marines as an interrogator/interpretor. I think you are missing a few points of the quandry.

Firstly, it would be something a little more than you sitting at home in your favorite chair rotating R2 R2 for a couple million times.

I would say more like. Having had no sleep for 3 days, no food, very little water, and having a time limit for each solve. these cubes would be piled at your feet, some would have stickers rearranged. Some would have a piece melted. Some would be restricted movement cubes. Some would require severe effort in order to make turns. Everytime you don't solve a cube at the time limit allowed, a digit is taken off, starting with your toes until you have only thumbs and index fingers left. Now that's a movie I'd go see. I think that Stefan Pochmann would do very well, since he has tarantula fingers, probably at least 5 digits per finger. (Could be on his toes as well) :lol:


Shawn have you been secretly thinking about doing this to someone? :P hehehehe


but yes, it wouldn't be a 5 star atmosphere. Think of being in a trap in the movie SAW and this is the problem you have to figure out. :D:D:D

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 Post subject: Puzzle or your life
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:36 am 
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I thought you would like that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:33 pm 
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SAW 3 OCT 27 GO SEE IT YAAAAA

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 Post subject: See, Saw
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:38 pm 
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will it have Stefan Pochmann in it?? :solved:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:47 pm 
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Hmm, where did you get that sawshank image? And what does the original look like?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:18 pm 
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i would choose choice #2. so lets do the calculations. if it were a 3x3x3 puzzle that you have to solve lets calculate an average solve of 30 seconds.

there are 31,536,000 seconds in a year. if you divide that out by 30 seconds then you get 1,051,200 solves per year. accounting that you never eat or sleep.

now lets look at the word FEW. on dictionary.com here is one of the meanings: Amounting to or consisting of a small number. so small number could be 3 or 4 or 5. 2 is thrown out because 2 would be a couple. so if you have to solve it 4 million times then you are looking at roughly 4 years.

now consider that you have a puzzle like a magic or a 1x2x2, two of my favorites, only takes a few seconds to solve lets say 5 seconds on average. now you are free in only 6 months, again with no sleeping or eating.

on the otherhand if you have to solve a new puzzle that no one has seenpossibly something like a crossteaser but harder. like a 10x10x10 crossteaser. you may never find a solution. or a book that has been shreded and you have to put it back together. that may take several years.

my vote is for something that you know.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:39 pm 
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what if he did this...


Say he knew your solving abilities of the 3x3x3, and say you were able to solve it, for someone bad like me, in 40 seconds. What if he were to only give you 20 seconds before the trap triggered. Would youre best bet be to go for it and try to get lucky, or to dissassemble and hope to finish putting it together before the timer goes out. :D

Me, ithink id dissassemble it, and then hope to be wicked fast.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:46 pm 
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Magic takes 5 sec?? That's incredibly slow...

If it were a million magics vs., say, a 2x200 magic, a million magics.


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