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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:04 pm 
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Quote:
beijingshi
beijingshi
Beijing Municipality, 100052
China

Well that covers about 15 million people. Perhaps the postman will get lucky. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:47 pm 
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KelvinS wrote:
Quote:
beijingshi
beijingshi
Beijing Municipality, 100052
China

Well that covers about 15 million people. Perhaps the postman will get lucky. :lol:


I laughed as well when that came up as the return address.

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:12 pm 
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Location: Thailand
This is the seller's address that I have got from Ebay.


Seller's return address:
文杰胡
广东省深圳市南山区南光路103号鸿瑞花园B栋1105室
深圳市 广东省 518000
China

I have contacted to Ebay and Ebay told me to send it back
with tracking number to seller.


And I have got the address same as Mr.ZEM from PayPal.


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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:40 pm 
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Tep wrote:
This is the seller's address that I have got from Ebay.


Seller's return address:
文杰胡
广东省深圳市南山区南光路103号鸿瑞花园B栋1105室
深圳市 广东省 518000
China

I have contacted to Ebay and Ebay told me to send it back
with tracking number to seller.


And I have got the address same as Mr.ZEM from PayPal.


I'd contact them again saying you were given an invalid return address like others have gotten.

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:58 am 
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I have of course, received junk items like the rest. I've opened Paypal claims, and Paypal has not even given the seller a chance to respond, telling me to:

'End Communication and Escalate to a Claim
Your seller is currently unable to respond to this dispute. By escalating your dispute to a claim, you are asking PayPal to review the case and decide the outcome.'

I'm assuming this is due to the seller receiving so many claims for obviously fraudulent transactions.

No mention of me having to return the 'goods'

Edit: Never mind, it may still happen that they tell me to send the item back, having looked at the claims in the 'resolution centre' I guess I somehow misinterpreted what the above text meant.

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:02 am 
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I received my first of seven beads on a string yesterday and just filed my first PayPal dispute which was immediately escalated to a claim. I skipped dealing with the eBay resolution center.


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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:16 am 
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Since PayPal is a wholly owned subsidiary of eBay (i.e., part of the same company), I guess it doesn't matter which one of them pays out the claim, so just go with the one that provides a better customer claims/support service, which is apparently PayPal, and ignore eBay completely.

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:25 am 
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When it comes to that I will go for paypal as well straight away. My three bricks are still in Bejing though (and I ordered just before Martywolfman I think).


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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:23 am 
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As soon as I received the package I knew no petaminx was inside.
At first I was reluctant to open it and simply hand it back to the postman, but my morals kicked in and so immediately escalated to a claim on PayPal, reporting an incorrect item.

They sent me an email today stating that a refund will be available upon return of the item, so in a last ditched attempt I called PayPal, and after 10 minutes of automated rubbish I managed to get through to an 'agent'. He was very helpful and said that it was a common scam, and returning an item of no value is pointless. So issued an immediate refund to my account.

For me buying though eBay offers such good security that such a ridiculous offer like these are still worth a shot as if it fails, I waste 20 - 30 minutes of my time getting my money back, and if the item actually materialises then you've made a potential massive saving.

Hope others sort their out too
Robert

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:39 am 
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I bought 3 items, my petaminx and Eitan's star came in one small envelope, my Bauhinia in another small envelope.

I opened disputed on them immediately (yesterday) The seller emailed for me to return the items.

I immediately called paypal and spoke to their customer services, within 2-3 minutes on the phone, they had refunded me the money for all 3 items.

So do not assume that the email saying to return the item actually comes from eBay, it doesn't, it comes from the seller. Do what I did, call them, they *should* refund the money - point out to them that you know of other puzzle enthusiasts that have been scammed by the same seller, and that eBay has removed his account (I did).

The money is back in my account waiting to be spent on something else shiny and new :D

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:41 am 
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Except that if the scam is so common the costs are ultimately passed on to future customers through higher transaction costs.

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:57 am 
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KelvinS wrote:
Except that if the scam is so common the costs are ultimately passed on to future customers through higher transaction costs.



Well, according to the emails Paypal have sent me, they have recovered the money from the seller.

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:01 am 
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Plus a hefty fine, I hope.

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:35 am 
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Glad to read that people are starting to get their money back. Don't delay!
Open a case and then phone paypal. I actually also phoned ebay who promptly refunded me as well. At least we will all know better next time a 'too good to be true' offer comes along. This time we got all our money back. Next up yours to the scammers!


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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:06 pm 
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Since I opened cases with ebay for my braclets, PayPal won't work with me at all. They transfered me to ebay, and I told ebay about how he wont even negotiate with me, how he deleted his account, and how i received illegitimate products, and they still don't even think that it's a scam. They just want me to continue contacting the seller.

Anyone else in the same boat? Should I call PayPal agian? Should i escalate to a claim on ebay?

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:09 pm 
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I got my money back from my first case with PayPal. I just opened my other 6 cases with them. Once again I skipped eBay and went directly to PayPal.

It seems that eBay is just interested in resolving the problem with the assumption that somehow or another the seller will send the correct items. So much for their buyer protection. Lesson learned for the future, always go where the money is when you have a problem. After all, eBay just bartered the deal, PayPal is the one holding the money that you want back.


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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:19 pm 
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kuBer wrote:
Since I opened cases with ebay for my braclets, PayPal won't work with me at all. They transfered me to ebay, and I told ebay about how he wont even negotiate with me, how he deleted his account, and how i received illegitimate products, and they still don't even think that it's a scam. They just want me to continue contacting the seller.

Anyone else in the same boat? Should I call PayPal agian? Should i escalate to a claim on ebay?

Don't bother with eBay. Call PayPal again, explain what has happened with all these other orders/claims, and then if the guy still refuses to pay, ask to speak to his manager. And if his manager won't pay, ask to speak to his manager's manager, until you get to the CEO, or your money back. And if they keep trying to pass you to eBay, say that's not acceptable, you have an agreement with PayPal and they still have to honour it, even if you have another agreement with eBay and they happen to be the same company.

Remember: Squeaky wheel gets the oil, so keep pushing for your rights! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:15 am 
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Fellow scam victims,

Just to add my experience should it benefit anyone else, upon receiving my first of what I'm sure is to be 5 envelopes of a string of beads that my 6 year old did a better job of making for me on father's day, I opened a case though e-bay with a note to the seller that said "I am very aware of the fraudulent activity that you're perpetrating on puzzle collectors, and I am not interested in attempting a return to a nonexistent address. I expect either the puzzle to be sent to me, or a full refund."

I then borrowed/paraphrased one of my favorite quotes from the movie Taken, and followed up with "Regardless of my ability to identify the source of this fraud at the moment, I am accustomed to situations of this nature remedied to my satisfaction." I then called ebay's resolution center with information on all 5 puzzles, including the 4 that haven't arrived yet.

Ok, so do NOT say that last part, but within 10 minutes I received 5 separate e-mails stating that the seller has refunded the money on all 5 products. I never even contacted paypal.

The interesting thing is, I only received one of the 5 envelopes, but had all 5 refunded before any other came. So no matter how many puzzles you ordered, I wouldn't even wait for them all to arrive. Once you get the first envelope with the string of beads, go ahead and open up the case through E-bay with a strong message to the seller in no uncertain terms what you expect, and that you have no intention of sending the useless trinkets back. This is to ensure that if Ebay relies on the seller agreeing to refund the money, that you won't get a runaround if he feels he can get away with it. Then call ebay about your experience with the information of all your puzzles, including those that haven't arrived yet. They will see that his account has been closed and you'll get your refund.

Anyway, according to the paypal refund, here is his provided information:
Business Name: tangsufang
Email: fulushou998@163.com
Customer Service Email: fulushou998@163.com
Customer Service Phone: +86 18211892694
So I'm going to send a few e-mails and make a few calls. Maybe I can turn a disaster in an...opportunity 8-)

Wouldn't it be interesting if one of the packages that haven't arrived yet turned out to be a puzzle :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:18 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:33 am 
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I have tried again to send the seller a message explaining that this is a known scam. Hoping that ebay will intercede but no, just got another message insisting that I return the bracelet to the non-existent address!

I am beginning to believe that Ebay supports him more than me!
I tried contacting PayPal but they will not intercede - they insist that it is up to Ebay to resolve it!

This is going to end badly for me I think!!! :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:08 am 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
I have tried again to send the seller a message explaining that this is a known scam. Hoping that ebay will intercede but no, just got another message insisting that I return the bracelet to the non-existent address!

Did you open up a claim on Ebay? Communicate with him only as a message in the context of a claim. Ebay won't take care of it independently, as they will assume all is well unless you involve them directly.
First, open a claim against him, with a strong message that you insist on a refund.
Then, under the Home Page, click on Customer Support.
You will be in the tab "find an answer," and under "self service tools," click on "My item doesn't match the seller's description."
Find the tab that says "open a case," and click that. There will be two tabs, one that says "find an answer" (which is what you'll be open to). This will show pictures of the puzzles in question. Make note of the item number of all of them, as you will list them all to the person who you will talk to on the phone.

The tab next to it says "Contact Ebay." Click that one.
Click on the "Call Us" icon, and you'll be given a phone number and a temporary case number. Call that number and put in the case number. You'll talk to an actual person.
Explain the situation, that he is a known scammer, has a factitious address, and you'd like a refund. Also state that his account was closed once people started opening cases. Give the person each item number as they will extend the claim to all of them. That's all you should need to do.

Let me know if that works, and good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:34 am 
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Doctor who wrote:
but within 10 minutes I received 5 separate e-mails stating that the seller has refunded the money on all 5 products.
Do you guys believe the seller is actually refunding this money? I find it hard to believe this guy would go to this length to pull off a scam like this and then simply return the money. Maybe he is... I honestly don't know. What I can believe is that eBay or PayPal would offer full refunds... though they never did the few times I was pulled into a scam, though that was years ago... I think before PayPal and eBay merged. If this money is coming from PayPal or eBay or maybe some sort of insurance one of them has purchased the end result is the more this activity occurs the higher the fees will become to use eBay or PayPal. I would highly recommend that you take this as a learning experience and not gamble with other peoples money should similar "opportunities" appear in the future, even if you are able to recover all your money. The more people that are willing to take these apparent risk free gambles, the more scammers will pop up and try to abuse the system. If no one ever bid the scammers would never make any money and they'd move on to something else... likely of no good as well, but I see no reason to encourage them.

Just my 2 cents,
Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:59 am 
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Location: Bedford, England
In the email from Paypal:

You have indicated that a partial refund of $20.00 USD would be
satisfactory.
We were able to recover $20.00 USD, and this amount has been credited to
you. Please allow 5 working days for this adjustment to be posted.

If the seller's account has insufficient funds to complete the refund owed
to you, please be assured that we will take appropriate action against the
seller's account, which may include limitation of the seller's account
privileges.

(that is not partial, i don't know why it say that)

They say they have recovered the money, so no, I don't think I've gambled with your or other peoples money.

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:24 pm 
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I just contacted PayPal on my 6 open claims which got the expected send the item back email with the BS address. The girl I talked to this time wants to give the seller another chance to provide a working address for me to send the items back to and now had 3 days to do so. I guess I have to wait 3 days and try again with a different PayPal service rep.


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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:29 pm 
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Recovering (some) money from (some) scammers doesn't act as a deterrent unless there is also an additional penalty/fine for those who are caught, such that the expected (probability-weighted average) gain from scamming is negative. So on that basis, I can only see the problem get worse, and greater costs passed on to customers.

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:37 pm 
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martywolfman wrote:
I don't think I've gambled with your or other peoples money.
First... I don't mean to put anyone that fell pray to this scam on the defensive. The person in the wrong here is the scammer... period. eBay and PayPal want customers to use their services so they choose to make this nearly risk free for you. And as I've said I've fallen pray to similar scams in the past when it wasn't so risk free. I simply choose not to even consider something that looks too good to be true any more and my on-line transactions have been much smoother since. Its one less headache.

I just feel (no real data to support this) that if more were to avoid these higher risk auctions then the scammers would be making less or no money and it would results in less scammers and maybe more reasonable eBay and PayPal fees.
martywolfman wrote:
(that is not partial, i don't know why it say that)
Your email reads identical to the ones I would get years ago when when I was scammed. Then they did just do partial refunds and I never did get any more later.
martywolfman wrote:
They say they have recovered the money, so no,...
Interesting you trust that portion of the email when you yourself point out that just about all the rest of it being a partial refund is wrong. It looks like the form letter they sent me several years ago when I was scammed over a USB drive. I don't think eBay or PayPal is under any real obligation to tell you if they recovered the funds or not. They probably just have one form letter they use for all refunds would be my guess regardless of where the funds come from. Even if they are able to recover the funds after the seller has pulled them from PayPal I'd expect there are bank fees and other costs involved. I wouldn't put it past PayPal to charge eBay a fee for pulling the funds even if they were still in the PayPal account. And seeing the work put into this scam, I can't imagine why the scammer would leave anything in his PayPal account.

Again I'm NOT trying to say or imply you guys did anything wrong. I'm just saying I hope you have learned something from this and think before jumping on that "too good to be true" deal next time.

In hind sight me saying you were gambling with someone else's money is a stronger statement then I really wanted to make. The old adage there is no such thing as a free lunch is maybe a more appropriate way to state things.

Again... just my 2 cents,
Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:53 pm 
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KelvinS wrote:
Recovering (some) money from (some) scammers doesn't act as a deterrent unless there is also an additional penalty/fine for those who are caught, such that the expected (probability-weighted average) gain from scamming is negative. So on that basis, I can only see the problem get worse, and greater costs passed on to customers.
Note the gain also goes to zero if no one bids/bites in the first place. That is really the only portion of this equation that I (as a buyer) have any say in. Penalties, fines, heck even prison time would be great but that requires they catch the scammer and that takes money and resources too and that is up to eBay, PayPal, or more likely who ever they buy insurance from about rather that cost is worth it or not.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:18 pm 
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Doctor who wrote:
Let me know if that works, and good luck!

Yep!
Did all that from the very beginning and all they did was file the report and allow him to respond. After this they are just leaving it to be resolved between the 2 of us. Even when I phoned back and explained the scam they still said I had to follow procedures and send it back as he wanted.

I have no intention if wasting even more money on mailing junk!

From this lack of help and concern from eBay, I reckon they will do nothing!

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:24 pm 
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I finally got my stupid bracelet so I can file a claim with PayPal. It's very interesting, and it is for all 4 of my 'puzzles'. Value: $1-$2. And yes, the picture is upside down.


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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:50 pm 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
Even when I phoned back and explained the scam they still said I had to follow procedures and send it back as he wanted.

Did you mention to them that the address the scammer provided isn't a complete/real address? It is doesn't have any sort of building number or street name. If you took it to a post office they probably wouldn't even let you send it.


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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:08 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Do you guys believe the seller is actually refunding this money? I find it hard to believe this guy would go to this length to pull off a scam like this and then simply return the money. Maybe he is... I honestly don't know.


Here is a copy of the E-mail that was sent to me from Ebay: Hi ----,

Good news! We let the seller know the item wasn't as described, and the seller issued you a full refund. This case is now closed.

So....yes, unless Ebay is being less then truthful, it appears that he refunded the money.
Plus when I went to my paypal account, it said this: "Refund From tangsufang Completed"
"tangsufang has just sent you $15.00 USD with PayPal"
5 other such transactions were listed from this individual as a refund from his account, amounting to a total of $93. That gives me more to save up for your brilliant Bubbloid puzzles ;)
Again, maybe Paypal was being deceptive and it didn't come from his account, or maybe it was extracted from his account without his choice, who knows.
In any case, Kevin, I'm sorry you're getting the runaround, and your experience is far less smooth then mine, but make sure you let them know that his address isn't valid.
wwwmwww wrote:
I just feel (no real data to support this) that if more were to avoid these higher risk auctions then the scammers were be making less or no money and it would results in less scammers and maybe more reasonable eBay and PayPal fees.

Excellent advice! Were it not for the multiple assumptions that must be made. I can, of course, assume that the money came from the seller, as both Ebay and Paypal seemed to indicate. I can also assume that my communication with the seller (I gave the rated PG 13 version of it here) made something of a difference. But the evidence seems to indicate that the only person who lost anything was the seller losing his cheap trinkets, which, by the way I'll be selling on Ebay for $20 each :lol:
In terms of risk, yes, that's tricky business! Right now, I'm looking across at a set of 2x2 through 8x8 puzzles that I bought cheap from ebay for only $80 total. Certainly worth the risk!
In any case, we would all agree that the cautious course is always the safest and leads to less damage control, but my eyes were wide open with both the scammer and the 2x2 to 8x8 offers, I think I just got lucky with both :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:22 am 
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I decided, I will collect bracelets instead of puzzles.... A bit expensive.....


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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:55 am 
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Volitar Prime wrote:
Did you mention to them that the address the scammer provided isn't a complete/real address? It is doesn't have any sort of building number or street name. If you took it to a post office they probably wouldn't even let you send it.

Yes! The address was in Chinese script which when put through a web translator is a false address. I told them that, and they just encouraged me to continue with the process!
This is an unbelievably poor show from eBay!

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:18 pm 
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When Paypal automatically escalates a claim, they need to do a final review by a human to process the refund.

IF the seller jumps into the claim in the meantime, they can use the system to request that the item be returned to them, which circumvents Paypal's internal process and removes the claim from their queue because the seller has responded.
It can even confuse future calls with Paypal or Ebay. When it was on track for an automatic refund before, the seller's reply can put the claim back into "let's communicate" mode.
According to the fraud department, this is a known tactic more sophisticated scammers use.
I got a refund without sending back worthless items.

I'm only owning up to this in case the info above helps anyone. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:51 pm 
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Location: Greece, Australia, Thailand, India, Singapore.
It makes me extremely happy to see how well and organised this community can respond
to such a scam. And indeed, people can easily "bite", especially when it comes to cheap and
wanted puzzles.

Personally, I believe I would easily fall for this scam, the reason being in the past I was lucky(?)
enough to win some crazy (but true) "buy it now"s. To be more specific, I got six small hamtaros
from Taiwan for twenty dollars (this was in the old Yahoo auctions), two dozens original and packaged
8-tile magics for one dollar each, and many Octos for $4 each.

Many years later, such deals appear to be rare, and even if they come up they need to be
filtered out from a lot of other well known puzzle garbage. I guess the risk is higher today.

8-)



Pantazis

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:54 pm 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
Volitar Prime wrote:
Did you mention to them that the address the scammer provided isn't a complete/real address? It is doesn't have any sort of building number or street name. If you took it to a post office they probably wouldn't even let you send it.

Yes! The address was in Chinese script which when put through a web translator is a false address. I told them that, and they just encouraged me to continue with the process!
This is an unbelievably poor show from eBay!

Why are you dealing with eBay instead of PayPal? All the positive responses I have seen above come from the latter.

Still if you must proceed as they direct, contact the seller and ask for his address for return, then send his reply (with false address) to PayPal explaining that the seller refuses to give a valid address and accept the items. Also explain that others have had the same problem and that PayPal refunded their money no problem. Insist that you get your money back pronto. Ask for the PayPal guy's name and insist to speak with his supervisor to make a complaint. Keep escalating the problem up the ranks of PayPal until they pay up. Have you tried all of this??? Don't play the victim unil you have!

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:16 pm 
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Hello,
I just want to reinforce some mentions that dealing directly with Paypal is the best route to take.

Seeing the trend of cheap bracelets instead of puzzles, I jumped the gun and filed my complaint before I even received my package.

I started with the prompt from eBay to file a complaint, which led me to Paypal to enter a transaction number and then to answer several questions in an online form. I just informed them that I had received a product of very little value in place of my order. (Even though I havn't yet, I know it is inevitable)

I received an email saying it was bumped to a claim, and shortly after, received an email informing me to ship the item back for a refund.

I called customer support at Paypal, and after a short talk with them, informing them that the return address was false, and the rest of my situation (not bringing up this thread at all), I was quickly issued a refund.

I recommend this route to all trying to get their money back.

Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:27 pm 
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Thanks Kelvin for the patronising reply! I am not playing the victim!

I started my complaint with Ebay because I bought via eBay. What I did not realise is that once you have done this then PayPal will NOT deal with you! I know because I tried! And I did so on the phone!

As for eBay, every contact seems to end with them saying to let the seller respond. Even when I have shown them (on the phone) this thread and told them of the fake address they just persist with the "let the seller respond" line! No one will listen and I am not allowed to escalate until 8 days have passed!

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:40 pm 
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My apologies, Kevin. Your experience with this is all the more absurd and frustrating given those (e.g., the post preceding yours) who initially dealt with eBay and still managed to get a refund from PayPal without any problem, because the situation is no different, right?

Perhaps your local eBay rep is one of those people who have no business working in customer service? Perhaps you can ask to speak to another rep, or speak with his manager to complain as I suggested. Did you try this?

If all else fails, play the race card, and ask them if they are treating your identical case differently and unfairly because you are coloured (even if you are technically "coloured" white, they don't know) and hint at reporting them, and/or making the case public. That will stir up a response, I'm sure!

Just trying to help...

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:48 pm 
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Puzzlemad wrote:
Thanks Kelvin for the patronising reply! I am not playing the victim!

I started my complaint with Ebay because I bought via eBay. What I did not realise is that once you have done this then PayPal will NOT deal with you! I know because I tried! And I did so on the phone!

As for eBay, every contact seems to end with them saying to let the seller respond. Even when I have shown them (on the phone) this thread and told them of the fake address they just persist with the "let the seller respond" line! No one will listen and I am not allowed to escalate until 8 days have passed!

This is the same thing i've been dealing with and after call after call and email after email, i have decided to play their little waiting game. My cases wont close until the 24th and ebay has instructed me to wait three days for the sellers reply. It's already been two. Tomorrow or the next day I will make a call and they WILL give me my money back. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:24 am 
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My bracelets are in. Going to open 4 cases in Paypal. Wait and see.


Edit: oh wait.. no I have one earring (yes ONE, he must have known I am at least half deaf on each ear so figured one was enough), and two wooden bracelets.


Doctor who wrote:
Fellow scam victims,

Just to add my experience should it benefit anyone else, upon receiving my first of what I'm sure is to be 5 envelopes of a string of beads that my 6 year old did a better job of making for me on father's day, I opened a case though e-bay with a note to the seller that said "I am very aware of the fraudulent activity that you're perpetrating on puzzle collectors, and I am not interested in attempting a return to a nonexistent address. I expect either the puzzle to be sent to me, or a full refund."


I have just opened cases in Paypal in my case (reading what most say I am avoiding Ebay like the plague, PLUS I cannot call ebay from this country, honest to goodness!), told the seller what I received, and used your quote above hehe.

Thanks, saves me a lot of headaches thinking what to say ;)


Also.. what I just saw: when I opened the claims on Paypal Ebay automatically added all the claims on their site as well, and for questions to contact Paypal. Good.



Got the mail to return. Called Paypal.

gotta file at the police station for theft, and then upload that filing. Dear goodness.

I asked the person why the hubbub when in the UK for one this is so much easier: Dutch law.

Ah well.

Off to print everything out.


Last edited by Kattenvriendin on Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:44 am 
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Hello,

A strange thing happened! I have opened a case on eBay on December 29th and was waiting for the "products" arrive to escalate to a claim.

But today the seller (or whoever) asked for eBay customer support to review the case... And suddenly I received a full refund on all my products!

Please see the attached images.

So the only thing I need to do now is wait for my jewelry arrive. They'll be added to my puzzle collecion! ;)

Good luck for you all!


Attachments:
peta1.PNG
peta1.PNG [ 57.45 KiB | Viewed 2250 times ]
peta2.PNG
peta2.PNG [ 63.71 KiB | Viewed 2250 times ]
peta3.PNG
peta3.PNG [ 61.23 KiB | Viewed 2250 times ]
peta4.PNG
peta4.PNG [ 65.6 KiB | Viewed 2250 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:57 am 
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Great news for you!

Hopefully things will sort themselves out for me as well, but considering the utter stupidity of some things in this particular country I am not expecting too much.


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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:23 pm 
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Well the 8 days since I posted my report on ebay have passed and so I was then able to escalate the case!
I did this on the phone (I had previously added all the other photos everyone has posted on the forum - thanks guys).
I spoke to a very nice young man who was very apologetic when I let loose with both barrels!

So far I have received one refund for $16 (which has come through from the chinese PayPal).

Attachment:
Refund.jpg
Refund.jpg [ 89.62 KiB | Viewed 2182 times ]


The other one for $30 he wanted to go to the special fraud department for review and then in 5 days I would "hopefully" get my refund!

Interestingly on the resolution centre it says:
Customer Support comments: wrote:
Please provide written confirmation from the manufacturer or law enforcement authority that the item is counterfeit.


I am not sure how I am supposed to do that - should I take the bracelet to the police and ask for a letter confirming it's not a cube? There is also nowhere for me to actually add further comments!

Hopefully I will get the rest of my money back soon! But if I cannot provide a letter from the police (or the manufacturer) that it is not a cube then I could still lose out!

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:36 pm 
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Good news:

I have received all of my money!

I opened the cases on Ebay before received the cheap bracelets.
I have never expected from Ebay to resolv this.

Good luck to you!


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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:20 pm 
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Still waiting, no jewelry, no money back, my tracking number never worked, and Paypal got an other tracking number from the seller that is working, but was for something that was send to a complete different address.
I opened a case with eBay for non-reception of the 2 items, it was immediately transfered to Paypal, they are 'reviewing' the problem.....since more than a week now.
Well at least I have no problem with sending things back, never recieved anything. :wink:

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Last edited by mixer on Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:21 pm 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
Please provide written confirmation from the manufacturer or law enforcement authority that the item is counterfeit

I am not sure how I am supposed to do that - should I take the bracelet to the police and ask for a letter confirming it's not a cube? There is also nowhere for me to actually add further comments!.

Hopefully I will get the rest of my money back soon! But if I cannot provide a letter from the police (or the manufacturer) that it is not a cube then I could still lose out!

This is what I need to do in fact, going to the police station tomorrow at 12:30. Let's hope I will be out before 3pm!

I have printed out the emails that I have received that my items were on their way to me, that email also holds the tracking numbers and pictures of the items purchased. I also printed the paypal details of the item. Those details hold the name of the item, purchase price, ebay number and tracking number, that can be cross referenced with my emails received. Last I printed the email that I got from paypal stating that I have to send the item back to that bogus address, I can state that many here received bracelets (need to print those posts of pictures as well by the way, bring them along as evidence), and then I put the envelopes on their respective cases to bring along with me.


A lot of work, yes. But ah well, if that is what is needed for us to fight through the bog, then I will do it. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:49 pm 
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Customer Support comments: wrote:
Please provide written confirmation from the manufacturer or law enforcement authority that the item is counterfeit.

Interesting - a later email has asked me to file a full report with the "National Fraud and Internet Crime Reporting Centre (Action Fraud)" and then email them the reference number. After that hopefully they will be able to close the case!

Wow - that was unexpected!

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:58 pm 
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Well, I started a dispute in ebay.co.uk, which immediately re-directed me to ebay.com because that is where the original purchase was made. I said the item was not as described, and the next day I received a comms from our Chinese friend asking me to return the worthless package to a probably non-existent address in China. The only way I could escalate this further was to phone a US number! Luckily, I could do this from work, thus saving £??'s, and after explaining everything to the eBay gnome, he said that nothing could be done until the 9th January at the earliest, no matter what I said about this being an obvious (and acknowledged) scam :cry:

Then, just a few minutes ago, I got an email from eBay.co.uk (not ebay.com) saying that I had been refunded the full amount :shock: No explanation was given about the change of heart. I guess the squeaky wheel gets the oil!

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 Post subject: Re: Unbelievable Ebay Offers???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:07 pm 
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My envelope arrived today with my pretty new bracelet. I will phone paypal this weekend to get things finished up since I opened my case over a week ago to get the ball rolling early. I will let you guys know what happens.


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