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 Post subject: Advertising counterfeit products
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:39 pm 
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Location: Glastonbury, CT (USA)
I know the idea of censorship and restricting what people may or may not say is likely to be a controversial one, but possibly it's time to entertain the idea of prohibiting links to pirated puzzles. It seems like it is only becoming more and more frequent that people link to counterfeit products. The argument that they some are just "informing" rather then "advertising" doesn't seem to change my mind either. Informing someone of a product is almost the exact definition of advertising. The forums don't benefit from people linking to counterfeit products.

I'm not saying that there should be restrictions on talking about certain products, and having a good debate every once in a while. Basically my thought behind proposing this is what does more good for the forums. It can be agreed upon that counterfeit puzzles are bad, and should not be supported, so lets take a look at the Pros / Cons of posting or not posting.

Not posting a link to counterfeit material
Well, simply what happens here is that people do not talk about the illegal puzzle, and thus do not attract attention to it. There are no real positive effects to not posting, but not posting the link to an illegal puzzle also in no way negatively effects the forums because we already have a very lively marketplace full of quality puzzles to buy.

Posting a link to counterfeit material
As far as positive effects for the forum, I cannot think of any way that this forum benefits from linking to illegal puzzles. The negative effects of posting this content though include, creating traffic to the illegal sale, causing people to get upset about the posting, providing free advertising (intentionally or not), and in ultimately helps the criminals.

So when you really think about it the only truly responsible choice is to not post links to illegal content, and I think that a rule should be made to help achieve this.

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 Post subject: Re: Advertising counterfeit products
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:44 pm 
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Your website sells Megaminxes not made by Meffert's, right? Just wondering....

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 Post subject: Re: Advertising counterfeit products
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:47 pm 
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Bryan wrote:
Your website sells Megaminxes not made by Meffert's, right? Just wondering....

but they have original designs


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 Post subject: Re: Advertising counterfeit products
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:50 pm 
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Yes, I can see how that would look confusing... But you need to understand that the Pro-Minx is in fact not a megaminx. It has an entirely different mechanism, and is no way any kind of modification of anything made by Uwe Meffert. It is it's own puzzle, 100% unique. For a more detailed talk about the mechanism behind the Pro-Minx, talk to Drew.

Because the Pro-Minx is the sole product of Drew's hard work, and not stolen from any existing work by Uwe Meffert... I do not view that puzzle as counterfeit. That would be like saying that the Olympicube 5x5 was infringing on the Eastsheen 5x5.

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 Post subject: Re: Advertising counterfeit products
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:51 pm 
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....and the basis of that design seems so familiar for some reason.

EDIT: The bottom line with knock-offs is that you either buy them or you don't. I'm sure there are plenty of people here that are "protesting" them but will buy one anyway as a 'collector's item'. After all, look at all the attention these puzzles are getting.


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 Post subject: Re: Advertising counterfeit products
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:57 pm 
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Well if you're going to use that school of thought, then any idea used to be modified into another puzzle is also illegal...

Using the IDEA for a puzzle in my opinion does not mean that the puzzle is illegal. If that were the case, then puzzle building would not exist the way it does because there would be no sharing of ideas! All of those puzzles I listed above were created by hard work and working on the design. They were not stolen.

The only technically counterfeit puzzle that is on my website is the Octahedron. In hind sight I would not have posted it. But believe me, if I had any reason to believe that the original seller was working to create more of these puzzles I would absolutely shut down that list in a heart beat.

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Last edited by Scott Bedard on Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Advertising counterfeit products
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:58 pm 
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I've had a conversation similar to this with someone just the other day. If all posts on copied products are stoped. (Note I said posts, not links) then I am in big trouble. I am in a very nice spot on the globe to report on the copied products and have done so on more than one occasion. At times I go out and buy them purposely to "help" (or inform if you will) members of the forum. I.e Alexander's star. (In cases like this, I don't want anyone ripped off under false pretences and I don't pay that shipping lump) at other times, I have been ripped off myself through ignorance.

I completely agree that links shuld be banned, just like links to live auctions, but at the same time, I think it should be perfectly acceptable to post a "Damn, I got took and here's how" type of post.

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 Post subject: Re: Advertising counterfeit products
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:05 pm 
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Scott Bedard wrote:
The only technically counterfeit puzzle that is on my website is the Octahedron. In hind sight I would not have posted it. But believe me, if I had any reason to believe that the original seller was working to create more of these puzzles I would absolutely shut down that list in a heart beat.

Well, if it comes down to technicalities, you haven't actually sold any of those since August 2008. At least from that list. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Advertising counterfeit products
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:17 pm 
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In order for this to work at all, there needs to be an objective standard as to what defines a pirated puzzle.

Is it a copy of a puzzle currently under patent? Previously patented but expired? Made by some one else?

By some definitions, the Octahedron replicas would be considered a pirated puzzle because it uses a design created by someone else without any changes or compensation to the original creator.


Personally, I think that forbidding posts on any puzzle will do more harm than good. The current heated debates will work them selves out in one way or another and life in the puzzle community will go on. Let the Law of Compensation work out what happens to all involved.

Just remember that the community is fueled by new custom puzzles as much, or more, than new production puzzles.


Enough talk, I have puzzle designs to complete. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Advertising counterfeit products
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:33 pm 
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This is the only set of standards I've seen actually respected with regards to copying.


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 Post subject: Re: Advertising counterfeit products
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:58 pm 
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Discussion pending. Will post outcome.

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