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Jared

Post subject: A small math problem. Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:08 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:16 pm Location: Somewhere Else

Suppose we have a dodecahedron that is marked on the faces like a Supernova puzzle: http://twistypuzzles.com/cgibin/puzzle.cgi?pkey=651In other words, we have a dodecahedron with twelve rings around it that meet at the midpoints of each edge. If we slice away the twelve sides along those lines, we are left with a smaller dodecahedron. What is the volume of that smaller dodecahedron, as a percentage of the original?


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dannyb21892

Post subject: Re: A small math problem. Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:41 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:30 pm Location: NYC

I'm not sure how this would be calculated but I made the two shapes in a CAD program and had it calculate the volumes of both solids. The smaller one was approximately 16.725% volume of the larger one. A tiny bit more than one sixth.
_________________ No matter how long I've been into this stuff, I always learn new things. That's why it's impossible to get tired of it.


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Timur

Post subject: Re: A small math problem. Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:41 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:00 am Location: Germany, Siegerland


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Iranon

Post subject: Re: A small math problem. Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:39 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:59 pm

Timur wrote: I calculated the edge of the smaller dodecahedron as (sin 54° + sin 18°  1/2) = 0.618 of the bigger one, so the volume is 0.618^3 = 23.6%. Maybe I'm not awake yet, but don't you mean (sin36°/2sin72°)=0.30902...? (and then cube that for the ratio of the volumes, of course) Odd that neither of our answers correspond with what CAD apparently says. What gives?


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KelvinS

Post subject: Re: A small math problem. Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:59 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:13 pm

It should end up being the cube of the ratio of the facetoface distance of the smaller (internal) vs larger (original) dodecahedra, on the basis that volume is proportional to the cube of linear scale, for a similar 3D form.
_________________ If you want something you’ve never had, you’ve got to do something you’ve never done  Thomas Jefferson


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Timur

Post subject: Re: A small math problem. Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:24 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:00 am Location: Germany, Siegerland

Iranon wrote: Maybe I'm not awake yet, but don't you mean (sin36°/2sin72°)=0.30902...? (and then cube that for the ratio of the volumes, of course) The pentagon that you mean is not a face of the small dodecahedron. Faces of the small dodec are bigger and they lie not on the outer surface, but on the cutting layer.
_________________ Timur aka Shim Signed Vulcanos ($48), Pillow Pyraminxes ($22) Come visit my Shapeways shop


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kastellorizo

Post subject: Re: A small math problem. Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:37 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:31 am Location: Greece, Australia, Thailand, India, Singapore.


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Iranon

Post subject: Re: A small math problem. Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:39 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:59 pm

Timur wrote: Iranon wrote: Maybe I'm not awake yet, but don't you mean (sin36°/2sin72°)=0.30902...? (and then cube that for the ratio of the volumes, of course) The pentagon that you mean is not a face of the small dodecahedron. Faces of the small dodec are bigger and they lie not on the outer surface, but on the cutting layer. Oops! Of course it is, thank you. I was wondering what was wrong... Now I'm curious, how do you set up a simple calculation for that inner edge length?


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Timur

Post subject: Re: A small math problem. Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:51 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:00 am Location: Germany, Siegerland

Iranon wrote: Now I'm curious, how do you set up a simple calculation for that inner edge length? It was not simple at all, I had to write a whole page before I got the result. No wonder if I made a mistake somewhere
_________________ Timur aka Shim Signed Vulcanos ($48), Pillow Pyraminxes ($22) Come visit my Shapeways shop


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Timur

Post subject: Re: A small math problem. Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:25 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:00 am Location: Germany, Siegerland

Iranon wrote: Maybe I'm not awake yet, but don't you mean (sin36°/2sin72°)=0.30902...? I calculated it completely another way and came to the conclusion that the edge size to be found will be exactly double of the side of this small pentagon on a face that you originally meant, that makes 2*0.30902 = 0.618, and that just confirms my first answer So the answer may be also written as (sin 36°/sin 72°)^3 or just (2*sin 18°)^3.
_________________ Timur aka Shim Signed Vulcanos ($48), Pillow Pyraminxes ($22) Come visit my Shapeways shop


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dannyb21892

Post subject: Re: A small math problem. Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:38 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:30 pm Location: NYC

My apologies guys. Don't ask how I messed up a dodecahedron in CAD but I did. I measured again and the small dodecahedron's volume is 0.236068 of the original. The edge length is .618034 of the original. You all were absolutely right. Sorry for the confusion
_________________ No matter how long I've been into this stuff, I always learn new things. That's why it's impossible to get tired of it.


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