Katsuhiko Okamoto’s void cube

Smapla · **Joined:** Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:44 pm

oh, yep, JPG is of course a better choice. sorry about that, I don't work with photos that much, and PNG is the best format for web graphics, in terms of color and quality preservation, as well as a minimal filesize. I will change that picture to a JPG.

bcp on pcp · **Joined:** Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:24 pm **Location:** MN

Phew, my bad computer couldn't load the thread the PNG was so big. Don't ask me why not though.

Smapla · **Joined:** Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:44 pm

wouldn't let me edit it till now >=o

again, very sorry about that.

Swordsman Kirby · **Posted:** Sat May 12, 2007 11:17 am

VeryWetPaint wrote:

Jin H Kim wrote:

Very impressive as always.

And yes, it would be made with a groove/rail system that uses the inner edges of cubes with interlocking rails machined in such a way that you can't otherwise see the pieces moving. Very clever but not something I'd recommend for someone without a machine shop behind them.

Why couldn't it be an ingenous variant on the conventional 6-armed spider?

It would be easiest to understand using a Mefferts assembly cube spider because it has no screws and no moving parts. You could take the center caps off and drill a small axial hole through the spider to the other side. Obviously these would be tiny holes, so it's obviously not Okamoto's solution yet, but you could certainly look through each hole to the other side of the cube.

Now imagine you could somehow expand the core, holes and all, until the openings were large and the spider was concealed (overlapped) under the cubie faces.

It wouldn't be easy and might not have anything to do with Okamoto's method, but I've verified the geometry is schematically feasible. But that just means there is adequate volume and area in the outer slices to hold such a hollow-core spider and both inner and outer grooves for the feet to slide in. A genuis would still have to figure out how to do it!

So what's my point? I just don't want to rule out a spider-like mechanism unless Okamoto denies it or other evidence rules it out.

He does deny it in that very page.

Gianni · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 1:58 pm

WOW! That's real genius. :idea:

What else could be said? :applause to Okamoto sensei:

Speedy McFastfast · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 2:18 pm

Are there any videos of the cube in action? that would be very interesting to see!

---a- -o--- · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 8:31 pm

VeryWetPaint · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 9:03 pm

Swordsman Kirby wrote:

VeryWetPaint wrote:

So what's my point? I just don't want to rule out a spider-like mechanism unless Okamoto denies it or other evidence rules it out.

He does deny it in that very page.

Thanks, I couldn't read it because the page is Japanese. Do you read Japanese, or did you find a page in a different language?

It would be nice to know what else Mr. Okamoto says!

Aleksey · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 9:29 pm

VeryWetPaint Google Language Tools is pretty good at translating Japanese to English (as well as other language pairs).

VeryWetPaint · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2007 11:58 pm

Aleksey wrote:

VeryWetPaint Google Language Tools is pretty good at translating Japanese to English (as well as other language pairs).

Thanks, I was hoping there was a better translation by someone who understood the nuances of Japanese. The Google translation could be interpreted to say the hole penetrates the cube due to leprosy! Some nuances of Okamoto's comments must've gotten lost in translation.

I didn't really want to defend my obsolete speculation about a spider-like mechanism because BillT pointed to a far more credible explanation in an old forum thread http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3836

That thread has some good pictures, so it's worth a peek if you haven't looked at it already.

Aleksey · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 12:47 am

Of course I have, and I believe that the puzzle with a hollow spider is more feasible than having the edge cubies to grip the corners somehow yet be stable enough not to get loose when paying with the puzzle.

Takafumi · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 4:54 am

My friend uploded the video of the Void cube on You Tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LEpAujrMuE

Check it out ! It's so cool.^^

Takafumi

joey · **Joined:** Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:02 pm

Is that Katsuhiko Okamoto in the video?

Swordsman Kirby · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:04 am

That hollow spider mechanism that you posted VeryWetPaint is pretty strange.

Takafumi · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:05 am

No,the man playing the void cube is Shinpei Araki, Japanese speedcuber.
Did you see that video?
How was it?

Takafumi

Swordsman Kirby · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:09 am

It seems to be quite slow of a solve as he is not used to the parity issue.

Takafumi · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:14 am

And other information.

Other my friend took the photos and uploded in his website.

http://toshihata.blog99.fc2.com/blog-entry-40.html

Even if you do not understand Japanese, you can enjoy the pictures.

Incidentally, his name is Toshi.

Takafumi

VeryWetPaint · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:24 am

Takafumi wrote:

My friend uploded the video of the Void cube on You Tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LEpAujrMuE

Check it out ! It's so cool.^^

Takafumi

Thank you, arigatō, that is so cool.

The video seems to show that the cube can be solved around the wrong centers (because the centers are invisible) resulting in a parity problem that someone suggested earlier. If so, it also shows how the parity problem can be resolved.

In any event, the video is cool because the cube moves so nicely.

Swordsman Kirby · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 6:31 am

This is the parity fix (it will not solve the entire cube): E

Alternatively, you can use these other five algorithms:

E'
M
M'
S
S'

Stefan Pochmann · **Joined:** Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:07 pm

Or x, x', y, y', z, z'.

qqwref · **Joined:** Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm **Location:** NY, USA

Swordsman Kirby: Well, that is true, but those are very slow parity algorithms if you are a Fridrich or Petrus! It's no good having to resolve the whole thing.

I threw together M2 U M U' M' U R U R' U' M2 U R U' r' U', but I'm sure there's a better one.

Stefan: Those only work if you then resolve the cube to the color scheme you were just using, which can be very difficult to keep track of...

Erik · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 8:04 am

U R2 D' R L' F' U' D R2 B2 L' U D'

qqwref · **Joined:** Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm **Location:** NY, USA

Erik wrote:

U R2 D' R L' F' U' D R2 B2 L' U D'

Or, converted to a more speedcubing-friendly form, U R2 D' M D' (B F') R2 U2 L' (B' F). It's still sort of ugly, though... I think I prefer mine.

Does anyone know where that URrM-group optimal solver is?

Swordsman Kirby · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 11:17 am

qqwref, if you are doing CF, it should be fine, but who does that as their #1 method nowadays?

And would you personally solve a Void Cube for speed?

perfredlund · **Joined:** Fri May 06, 2005 10:13 am **Location:** Norway

qqwref wrote:

Erik wrote:

U R2 D' R L' F' U' D R2 B2 L' U D'

Or, converted to a more speedcubing-friendly form, U R2 D' M D' (B F') R2 U2 L' (B' F). It's still sort of ugly, though... I think I prefer mine.

Does anyone know where that URrM-group optimal solver is?

A nice one that will not work for PLL (after OLL) would be:

S' R E' R U2 R' E R U2 R2 (this is my general nxnxn parity fixer btw :wink:

)
Without the first S' it's just an edge 3-cycle!! I'll find a good CFOP friendly parity fixer!

-Per

perfredlund · **Joined:** Fri May 06, 2005 10:13 am **Location:** Norway

Hi

Some fingerfriendly alternatives for parity fixers:

r R U' r' R U R' U' r2 R' U' r' R U r' U r'
r R2 U' r' R U R2 U' r2 U' r' R U r' R' U r'
r U' r' R U R' U' r2 R' U' r' R U r' U r' R
r U' r' R U R2 U' r2 U' r' R U r' R' U r' R2
r' R U r' U r' R U' r2 R' U' R' U r' R U' r
r' R2 U r' R' U r' R U' r2 U' R2 U r' R U' r
r' U r' R' U r' R U' r2 U' R2 U r' R U' r R2
r' U r' U r' R U' r2 R' U' R' U r' R U' r R

or:

U' r' R U2 r R' U' r U' r' U r' R U' r U r'
U' r' U r U' r' R U r' U' r U' r R' U2 r' R
r' R U r R' U r2 U R2 U r' R U' R2 U' r2 U2
r' R U r' U' R U' r R' U R' U r U r' R U2
r' U2 r' R U r U r' U r R' U' r U' r' U R

Enjoy !!

-Per

Pembo · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 2:50 pm

Ksolve + ru parameters Per?

Speedy McFastfast · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 3:00 pm

Swordsman Kirby wrote:

And would you personally solve a Void Cube for speed?

I know I would! I love speedsolving any puzzle I get, official or not. I would have to get a void cube, or make one. This puzzle is one of the most interesting I have ever seen. I wonder how hard it would be to make... This might be the better path, seeing as it would probably become very expensive

The bad part is, I am not a modder, so I have no experience making puzzles

S.Rubiks · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 3:06 pm

Speedy McFastfast wrote:

Swordsman Kirby wrote:

And would you personally solve a Void Cube for speed?

I know I would! I love speedsolving any puzzle I get, official or not. I would have to get a void cube, or make one. This puzzle is one of the most interesting I have ever seen. I wonder how hard it would be to make... This might be the better path, seeing as it would probably become very expensive

The bad part is, I am not a modder, so I have no experience making puzzles

just pop the center pieces off of any cube then solve it like a void cube. It really is that simple.

Speedy McFastfast · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 3:13 pm

S.Rubiks wrote:

Speedy McFastfast wrote:

Swordsman Kirby wrote:

And would you personally solve a Void Cube for speed?

I know I would! I love speedsolving any puzzle I get, official or not. I would have to get a void cube, or make one. This puzzle is one of the most interesting I have ever seen. I wonder how hard it would be to make... This might be the better path, seeing as it would probably become very expensive

The bad part is, I am not a modder, so I have no experience making puzzles

just pop the center pieces off of any cube then solve it like a void cube. It really is that simple.

The whole reason I want a void cube is not for the solving experience, but rather for the fact that it looks interesting. A puzzle that you can see through that doesn't fall apart is very amazing to me, and I would love to have something like that.

S.Rubiks · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 3:40 pm

any collector would. Problem is he isn't mass producing them as of yet.

qqwref · **Joined:** Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm **Location:** NY, USA

perfredlund wrote:

Some fingerfriendly alternatives for parity fixers:
[algorithms!]

Great! My favorites are
M U r' U M U' r2 R' U' R' U M U' r
M U M' U r2 U R2 U M U' R2 U' r2 (U2)
M U r' U' R U' M' U R' U r U M (U2)

Speedy McFastfast · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2007 8:12 pm

S.Rubiks wrote:

any collector would. Problem is he isn't mass producing them as of yet.

It's also going to be trouble because they are probably going to be high priced

Can anyone even remotely guess how much it costs for these things to be made?

reeeech · **Joined:** Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:19 pm

Speedy McFastfast wrote:

S.Rubiks wrote:

any collector would. Problem is he isn't mass producing them as of yet.

It's also going to be trouble because they are probably going to be high priced

Can anyone even remotely guess how much it costs for these things to be made?

I have one of his puzzles, wait list was a few months and cost was ~$600 USD!

Honestly, they are worth it... very well made and used quality plastics.
Aside from that, it's not a simple mod, it's not something he adds to a puzzle. He builds them from scratch, and it's all man hours that you are investing in. His time and effort to make them - it's not just a puzzle you are getting but something along the lines of artwork.

perfredlund · **Joined:** Fri May 06, 2005 10:13 am **Location:** Norway

Pembo wrote:

Ksolve + ru parameters Per?

Yes KSolve. Took about 25 mins to run. It's not worlds fastest solver but it is very flexible

-Per

qqwref · **Joined:** Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm **Location:** NY, USA

Can you solve it so that the permutation of the U layer doesn't matter, but so that all the U pieces are oriented correctly? I think that a very short sequence of this type would probably be more useful than a longer sequence that has a specific effect on the PLL.

perfredlund · **Joined:** Fri May 06, 2005 10:13 am **Location:** Norway

qqwref wrote:

Can you solve it so that the permutation of the U layer doesn't matter, but so that all the U pieces are oriented correctly? I think that a very short sequence of this type would probably be more useful than a longer sequence that has a specific effect on the PLL.

Exactly what are you after? Sounds like you want many cases with odd permutation and all orientations. Hmm ....
Some drawings would come a long way!

-Per

Speedy McFastfast · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 2:51 pm

reeeech wrote:

Speedy McFastfast wrote:

S.Rubiks wrote:

any collector would. Problem is he isn't mass producing them as of yet.

It's also going to be trouble because they are probably going to be high priced

Can anyone even remotely guess how much it costs for these things to be made?

I have one of his puzzles, wait list was a few months and cost was ~$600 USD!

Honestly, they are worth it... very well made and used quality plastics.
Aside from that, it's not a simple mod, it's not something he adds to a puzzle. He builds them from scratch, and it's all man hours that you are investing in. His time and effort to make them - it's not just a puzzle you are getting but something along the lines of artwork.

The only problem is, I can't see me getting my parents to let me spend 50 dollars on a puzzle, let alone 600 :shock:

They don't understand how hard these are to make/come around upon.

qqwref · **Joined:** Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm **Location:** NY, USA

perfredlund wrote:

Exactly what are you after? Sounds like you want many cases with odd permutation and all orientations. Hmm ....
Some drawings would come a long way!

Well, what you gave were algorithms that solved a specific case of the parity, but they were long-ish (mostly about 14-15 turns STM). I'm wondering if there is any way to find the shortest possible algorithms to fix parity, such that you don't care at all what happens to the PLL.

bcp on pcp · **Joined:** Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:24 pm **Location:** MN

reeeech wrote:

Speedy McFastfast wrote:

S.Rubiks wrote:

any collector would. Problem is he isn't mass producing them as of yet.

It's also going to be trouble because they are probably going to be high priced

Can anyone even remotely guess how much it costs for these things to be made?

I have one of his puzzles, wait list was a few months and cost was ~$600 USD!

Honestly, they are worth it... very well made and used quality plastics.
Aside from that, it's not a simple mod, it's not something he adds to a puzzle. He builds them from scratch, and it's all man hours that you are investing in. His time and effort to make them - it's not just a puzzle you are getting but something along the lines of artwork.

I barley have 600 usd in my bank account, and that's going to a laptop, not a puzzle. I could see paying that much when I'm out of college (and college realted debt) but until then i'd rather get a ps3 with that money. Wait no those are terrible, I'd rather get a laptop.

S.Rubiks · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 4:07 pm

Just think of this. Think of what your laptop would be worth in one year. Then think of what that puzzle will be worth in one year.

bcp on pcp · **Joined:** Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:24 pm **Location:** MN

Yeah but I seriously can't justify 600+ for a puzzle right now, I just can't afford it.

Erik · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 4:58 pm

S.Rubiks wrote:

Just think of this. Think of what your laptop would be worth in one year. Then think of what that puzzle will be worth in one year.

Think of what you can do with a laptop and what you can do with a puzzle

bcp on pcp · **Joined:** Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:24 pm **Location:** MN

I could make a program that accuratly simulates the action of a complicated puzzle with some help. Ok a lot of help but I have friends for that. A laptop for me will help me in school, let me do my computer games, I will be able to post here all the time (i mean even MORE than usual). A puzzle, I can scramble and solve and display. I'll get one when I have a real job, and I don't even have a summer one yet.

perfredlund · **Joined:** Fri May 06, 2005 10:13 am **Location:** Norway

qqwref wrote:

perfredlund wrote:

Exactly what are you after? Sounds like you want many cases with odd permutation and all orientations. Hmm ....
Some drawings would come a long way!

Well, what you gave were algorithms that solved a specific case of the parity, but they were long-ish (mostly about 14-15 turns STM). I'm wondering if there is any way to find the shortest possible algorithms to fix parity, such that you don't care at all what happens to the PLL.

Umm ok now i get it ... any alg that would fix the parity after OLL then.
That's a big task to embark. I can't exactlt tell the ksolve to do all that in 1 search .... grrr ... i'll try a few things tomorrow if i get time :wink:

PS! Would it have to fix edges or would distorting corners instead be ok too? OK i have the answer to that when i think about it 8-)

-Per

joey · **Joined:** Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:02 pm

I was bored, so I made my own Void cube. Its not fully functional, or functional at all, but it was just a bit of fun! It makes me want a real one!

kastellorizo · **Posted:** Thu May 31, 2007 8:53 am

joey wrote:

I was bored, so I made my own Void cube. Its not fully functional, or functional at all, but it was just a bit of fun! It makes me want a real one!

One thing's for sure. It looks (and turns!) a lot better than the Revolution.

Pantazis

Speedy McFastfast · **Posted:** Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:55 pm

I really would love to get a void cube. They would be a blast to play with, I love the way they look. I'm going to go crazy, this puzzle is going to be the death of me...

cubester · **Joined:** Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:13 pm

Speedy McFastfast wrote:

I really would love to get a void cube. They would be a blast to play with, I love the way they look. I'm going to go crazy, this puzzle is going to be the death of me...

i think we would all like to have the void cube. it looks unstable as if someone turned it, it would just fall apart.

Swordsman Kirby · **Posted:** Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:08 pm

But did you see the video, cubester?

Katsuhiko Okamoto’s void cube

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