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 Post subject: china Gear Octahedron
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:38 pm
Location: Russia
moderator will say this is KO (but I disagreed).
so I'm not going to talk about the store, the price and the manufacturer ...

this is Gear Cube shape MOD, Uwe probably soon it will sell in his shop...

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Last edited by grigr on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: china Gear Octahedron
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:10 am 
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compare with: Timur's Gear Corner Turning Octahedron
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 Post subject: Re: china Gear Octahedron
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:35 am 
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OH! Gear Octahedron~Finally come out! KO or not? I'm not sure. Seems like still Oskar's six axis gear structure.


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 Post subject: Re: china Gear Octahedron
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:07 am 
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I will check with Oskar on his thoughts, but given its mechanism I would assume KO. If grigr is correct and Meffert is arranging with Oskar to release an approved version, all the better.

I do appreciate grigr complying with our policy despite his different view on the matter. It's quite fine to hold a different opinion and OK to voice it.

A major goal of this site is the be an authoritative source of puzzle information and existence of a new puzzle, even if KO, is relevant news. How it is presented makes of course a major difference in being respectful, and grigr has properly followed our KO policy rules which is great.

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 Post subject: Re: china Gear Octahedron
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:56 pm 
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DLitwin wrote:
I would assume KO.
Correct.
grigr wrote:
this is Gear Cube shape MOD, Uwe probably soon it will sell in his shop...
Working on that.
grigr wrote:
moderator will say this is KO (but I disagreed).
Just checking whether I understand your statement. What if [KO company] would produce a tetrahedral, a dodecahedral and an octahedral version of your Mercedes Cube, copying exactly the internal mechanism of your puzzle? And this company claims it to be a 100% original [country of KO company] design. How would you feel? Honored? Knocked off? Or at least a bit of both?

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 Post subject: Re: china Gear Octahedron
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:16 pm 
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This community has had a long standing tradition of crediting a shape mod to the creater of the shape mod and not the original puzzle. For reference see the Fisher Cube and Trajber's Octahedron. So it gets confusing at times when puzzles like this come along. Is it something that should be credited to whomever made the new shape mod? Is it something that should be credited to whomever made the original puzzle? Or both? Is it a KO? Is it an original new puzzle?


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 Post subject: Re: china Gear Octahedron
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:23 pm 
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This is great looking puzzle. Such a shame it comes with a bad taste.
Oskar, I know you prefer to work on new stuff than exploit simple shape variations but may I suggest an Icosahedral version with Calvin or Uwe before you are in the same position again in a few months.

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 Post subject: Re: china Gear Octahedron
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Volitar Prime wrote:
For reference see the Fisher Cube ... Is it something that should be credited to whomever made the original puzzle? Or both? Is it a KO? Is it an original new puzzle?
Tony Fisher has never claimed his Fisher Cube to be a 100% original British design.
Tony Fisher wrote:
... may I suggest an Icosahedral version with Calvin or Uwe before you are in the same position again in a few months.
Nice thought, but I do not see this flying. The fact that these KO puzzles are on the market does not mean that they make good business.

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 Post subject: Re: china Gear Octahedron
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:34 pm 
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Volitar Prime wrote:
This community has had a long standing tradition of crediting a shape mod to the creater of the shape mod and not the original puzzle. For reference see the Fisher Cube and Trajber's Octahedron. So it gets confusing at times when puzzles like this come along. Is it something that should be credited to whomever made the new shape mod? Is it something that should be credited to whomever made the original puzzle? Or both? Is it a KO? Is it an original new puzzle?

Although these recent Chinese puzzles are often referred to as shape mods in reality of course they are not and I personally wish we would avoid calling them that. They are copied mechanisms with a new shape. A true shape mod actually modifies an existing purchased puzzle and therefore wouldn't be classified as KO since the mechanism designer has gained profit from when the modder purchased his puzzle (unless it's a mod of a KO of course).
My personal view is that a kind of hierarchy exists. As you probably know I have previously made and sold a rhombic dodecahedral (Gear Change) version of Oskar's Gear Cube. If someone copied and sold these I wouldn't be hugely happy. That is, unless it was Oskar or had Oskar's backing. He completely out ranks me regarding the mechanism and I would never dream of objecting.
So to answer your question, overall ownership is Oskar's. A modder of a legit puzzle with Oskar's mechanism (Gear Cube for example) would have a second level of ownership. A puzzle that copied Oskar's mechanism is a full KO. A copy of mod of a legit puzzle with Oskar's mechanism (Gear Cube for example) would also be a KO unless it had Oskar's backing.
I hope that clears things up.
BTW this is how I see it. I am not quoting any official policy.

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 Post subject: Re: china Gear Octahedron
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:09 am 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
So to answer your question, overall ownership is Oskar's. A modder of a legit puzzle with Oskar's mechanism (Gear Cube for example) would have a second level of ownership. A puzzle that copied Oskar's mechanism is a full KO. A copy of mod of a legit puzzle with Oskar's mechanism (Gear Cube for example) would also be a KO unless it had Oskar's backing.
I hope that clears things up.
BTW this is how I see it. I am not quoting any official policy.
This logic accurately reflects the factors the Admins and Mods consider when making KO designations. So although Tony doesn't set TP KO policy he has it spot on for on this matter.

Dave

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