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 Post subject: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LUBE!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:48 pm 
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CHECK OUT OUR NEW WEBSITE:
AtomicCubeLube.com
**The first 10 people to like our Facebook page will receive 3CCs of our lubricant for FREE**
**Check out our silicone lubricant and our Premium Cubes (Dayan 3x3 Modded) that feature Aircraft-Grade Aluminum Cores**
**Our stock is VERY limited - Your business is greatly appreciated**

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:07 pm 
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What is your Facebook page?
I liked your website in my Facebook page (I was the fourth one) but I couldn't find you on Facebook.

Edit: Thanks oBNoo :)

Could you make a video comparing the aluminum core's functionality with a regular one?

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Last edited by pooya13 on Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:10 pm 
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http://www.facebook.com/pages/AtomicCub ... 7512123328

I am lucky to be one of the first ten :D
The aluminum core looks really nice. I'd love to have it for one of my cubes.

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:21 am 
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Quote:
Installed aluminium core
- Increases stability
- Better balance, corner cutting and longevity
Can you please substantiate these claims? The only one I can remotely imagine holding up is "longevity" but what does the core being aluminium have to do wtih corner cutting, stability or balance (whatever it actually means for a cube to be balanced)? Furthermore, even with an aluminium core the rest of the cube is still plastic so wouldn't it wear out just as fast?

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:47 am 
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TomZ wrote:
Quote:
Installed aluminium core
- Increases stability
- Better balance, corner cutting and longevity
Can you please substantiate these claims? The only one I can remotely imagine holding up is "longevity" but what does the core being aluminium have to do wtih corner cutting, stability or balance (whatever it actually means for a cube to be balanced)? Furthermore, even with an aluminium core the rest of the cube is still plastic so wouldn't it wear out just as fast?
Seconded.

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:38 am 
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I must say that I don't think this is going to be that great. Supposedly the new dayan cores work quite well, and I don't think that speedcubes need more "balance." Also, they show the 48-point edge mod on their site without giving any credit to lubix. It does look like they have put a lot of work into this, but I'm not sure that they will have a lot of sales. also a cube with the aluminum core is 95$.

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:33 am 
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What makes aluminum "Aircraft-Grade"? Is it really any different than normal aluminum? Also, what is the viscosity of the lube? I'm assuming it is oil based. Is it really any different than Lubix?


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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:03 am 
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I think I was one of the first 10, so I'll post my thoughts when my sample arrives :)

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:11 pm 
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Hi everyone, I'd like to take a minute to address some of the questions that have come up.

-We understand our Premium Atomic Cubes with the aluminum cores are quite expensive. We wish they could be cheaper, but custom machining parts is not cheap.
-The performance difference is subtle on these Premium cubes, but on par with other expensive modded cubes
-Our lubricant is not oil based - It is pure high viscosity silicone - We consider the exact viscosity a trade secret
-Our intent is to provide an affordable, high quality, long lasting lubricant for cubers
-We will also be offering sticker sets individually soon, so please like us on Facebook and check our site often for updates and periodic SALES!

We'd like to thank you all for the support - Starting a small business is not easy and requires a lot of hard work and time

We're confident that you will like our products, and can only ask that you give them a try - We think it's important to provide options in this relatively small lube market

I'd be happy to address any further questions - Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:56 am 
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AtomicCubeLube wrote:
-Our lubricant is not oil based - It is pure high viscosity silicone - We consider the exact viscosity a trade secret
Does it not contain silicone oil then? That seems unlikely for a silicone lubricant. It also seems kind of weird to pretend the viscosity is a trade secret as it's easily measurable with a viscometer by anyone persistent enough.

Anyway, you haven't yet answered my original questions. I'm sorry for being so skeptical but that aluminium core seems like a marketing gimmick and I think it's a bit unfair to claim it increases stability/corner cutting/whatever. Do you have any evidence to suggest that?

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:19 am 
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AtomicCubeLube wrote:
-Our lubricant is not oil based - It is pure high viscosity silicone - We consider the exact viscosity a trade secret




Enough said.

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:02 am 
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Tom, bmenrigh, the lube is probably the same as lubix, but don't give any "credit" to them.http://lubixcube.com/Lubix_Cube/Welcome.html

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:48 am 
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TomZ wrote:
Quote:
Installed aluminium core
- Increases stability
- Better balance, corner cutting and longevity
Can you please substantiate these claims? The only one I can remotely imagine holding up is "longevity" but what does the core being aluminium have to do wtih corner cutting, stability or balance (whatever it actually means for a cube to be balanced)? Furthermore, even with an aluminium core the rest of the cube is still plastic so wouldn't it wear out just as fast?
Very similar questions have been asked over on speedcubing.com, with no answers given.

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:23 pm 
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Everyone, please calm down, reading this thread is making me feel bad


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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:58 pm 
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Let the guy sell his product, for crying out loud!!!

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:48 pm 
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Hi everyone, Brian here with AtomicCubeLube:

I'll address some more of the questions that have come up over the past few days.

-I will be stocking more Basic Atomic Cubes very soon. These are great cubes and comparably priced to similar modded cubes. Can a collection have too many cubes? I don't think so, our shelves are overflowing

-Some questions about the viscosity and exact makeup of the lubricant have come up. I can tell you that it is a polydimethylsiloxane polymer. I can't elaborate more on the viscosity for the same reason Lubix won't...it is a trade secret. The same reason Pepsi doesn't know how to make Coke and Coke doesn't know how to make Pepsi. They're both cola's, but different amounts and brands of ingredients. We don't know exactly what Lubix is, but we were inspired by it and are offering a silicone that provides a slightly different experience. Our silicone is different than Lubix and you can tell the viscosity is different by touch. Both are fine lubricants that produce slightly different feels in the cube. This should be more clear when video reviews start to surface.

-The aluminum cores seem to be a bit controversial. Let me clear some things up. This core is obviously a nice luxury, much like other expensive modded cubes. I understand that not many people can afford it, but we wanted to offer it as an option to those looking for something different and highly dependable. I understand the claims regarding balance and stability might be lofty right now, but video reviews are on their way...I really appreciate everyone's patience on this.

-The aluminum cores are actually very expensive to manufacture. Believe me, I didn't want to sell a $95 cube, but that's the only way we could do it right now. We're making very little money on these cubes. Aluminum might only be a few dollars a pound, but the machines that can carve it out into a shape and drill/tap the holes can costs hundreds of thousands of dollars. This isn't to mention the design costs, man hours, shipping costs, prototyping costs, etc. We can get the price down eventually, but it takes initial investments by those who can afford it to make this possible. We appreciate your understanding that this is a luxury right now and we really hope to get it to more people eventually.

Thanks to everybody that has shown support during our first few days of business. We will be posting video reviews as soon as they come in. I have been contacting some reviewers on Youtube...if you know of anybody I should contact, please let me know. Also, I'll be happy to address any further questions that come up.

Have a great day!


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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:55 pm 
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AtomicCubeLube wrote:
I have been contacting some reviewers on Youtube.


You should have done this in the first place as well as top speedcubers to see if the best of the best likes your material as well as you getting publicity before ever trying to sell your product to anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:55 am 
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Guys, is this really necessary? :?
They seem to be making a legitimate attempt to start a small business... why are so many people bashing them? No one has checked the quality of their product, at least wait for some feedback to start posting informed thoughts, this is not appropriate!
I'm not saying that I know they have something great, or that I think they have a huge business opportunity. I'm also not saying that I think they'll crash and burn. I don't really have an opinion on the idea- I don't concentrate on speedcubing, and have always used spray silicone.
I am saying that we should step back and see what happens. Questions are fine, just try to make them a little less accusing.

EDIT: On the aluminum cores:
I've had one or two cores snap before, so I don't see this as a horrible idea. Yes, it's a little expensive, but it's probably pretty expensive producing small machined parts in a small quantity, too!

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:52 pm 
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I received my free lube today and also free stickers which I was not expecting. I've never used lubix so I can't really offer a comparison but I will say this stuff works great! I used it on my ZhanChi and it is noticeably faster and smoother. The stickers are really nice too, great colors. Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Steveo wrote:
Guys, is this really necessary? :?
They seem to be making a legitimate attempt to start a small business... why are so many people bashing them? No one has checked the quality of their product, at least wait for some feedback to start posting informed thoughts, this is not appropriate!
I'm not saying that I know they have something great, or that I think they have a huge business opportunity. I'm also not saying that I think they'll crash and burn. I don't really have an opinion on the idea- I don't concentrate on speedcubing, and have always used spray silicone.
I am saying that we should step back and see what happens. Questions are fine, just try to make them a little less accusing.


I applaud those who are brave enough to start a small business. It takes a lot of work and funds to get a small setup going. I have been on that boat a couple of times.

This does not, however, exempt the business (or any businesses) from making claims that they can't substantiate. If we had no rules on claims, we would have a lot more start-up businesses that sell products that aren't doing what it is advertised to do (i.e. scams, shams). If you plan on making a claim, you must also be prepared to support that claim with your own evidence and evidence presented by independent parties. I feel that the concerns are 100% legitimate here, especially on an expensive product. To me, $95 is a lot to spend on a Rubik's cube without any substantial proof. I feel that this thread started to turn for the worse when the seller did not/was not able to substantiate his claims. Perhaps several legitimate statistics, such as the number of degrees more it can cut corners, could ease some nerves.

Take a look at the Lubix mod, which sells for around the same price. It commands the high price because it has been proven itself -- it was the cube that set a world record and is endorsed by the record holder. Until it has proven itself, I would find it to be a tough sell at the price.

Quote:
EDIT: On the aluminum cores:
I've had one or two cores snap before, so I don't see this as a horrible idea. Yes, it's a little expensive, but it's probably pretty expensive producing small machined parts in a small quantity, too!


I also do not see aluminum cores as a bad idea. However, considering the cost, you should be able to replace the cube several times for the same cost. Even if the core is better, what if all the other pieces wear out first because it is plastic vs. aluminum?

Ben

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:09 pm 
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Didn't he say several times that "video reviews are on their way"?
Why are you trying to prove him wrong when the reviews haven't even been out yet?
They were probably too excited to wait for the reviews before they launch their store, what's wrong with being impatient? You are certainly too impatient to wait for a few days and you're not even planning to buy one! :)

The core is probably connected to a metal screw (as is the case with other cubes). So, why would other pieces wear out first? The other pieces are probably gonna wear out the same as a regular cube. And maybe, since there are less distorted moves (the aluminum core keeps the cube in a firm cubic form as opposed to a regular core that would bend under pressure), the other pieces would actually wear off less than a regular cube!
We can guess all we want but the only way to know for sure is to wait for some reviews or to test it out for ourselves.

I don't get this culture in puzzle forums that people tent to try and destroy every new competitor rather than encouraging them.

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Last edited by pooya13 on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:13 pm 
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I have yet to see someone trying to sell a product and say "this product is more of the same. Don't even buy it, it's not new or anything".

You people are crazy at jumping at these guys. They're promoting their thing. Let them do that. You don't have to buy anything, and you don't have a friggin' right to jump at them if you don't believe they can pull off what they're claiming. If they eventually sell something that is not what they claimed, then you can legally do something about it.

Calm down.

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:54 pm 
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samus88 wrote:
I have yet to see someone trying to sell a product and say "this product is more of the same. Don't even buy it, it's not new or anything".

You people are crazy at jumping at these guys. They're promoting their thing. Let them do that. You don't have to buy anything, and you don't have a friggin' right to jump at them if you don't believe they can pull off what they're claiming. If they eventually sell something that is not what they claimed, then you can legally do something about it.

Calm down.


Agreed
I see hate toward the aluminum cores, yet people go out of their way to buy different cores (c4u core for example) all the time. I would have an aluminum core just because I think it's pretty cool and so might other people.

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:54 pm 
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pooya13 wrote:
Didn't he say several times that "video reviews are on their way"?
Why are you trying to prove him wrong when the reviews haven't even been out yet?
They were probably too excited to wait for the reviews before they launch their store, what's wrong with being impatient? You are certainly too impatient to wait for a few days and you're not even planning to buy one! :)

The core is probably connected to a metal screw (as is the case with other cubes). So, why would other pieces wear out first? The other pieces are probably gonna wear out the same as a regular cube. And maybe, since there are less distorted moves (the aluminum core keeps the cube in a firm cubic form as opposed to a regular core that would bent under pressure), the other pieces would actually wear off less than a regular cube!
We can guess all we want but the only way to know for sure is to wait for some reviews or to test it out for ourselves.

I don't get this culture in puzzle forums that people tent to try and destroy every new competitor rather than encouraging them.


Good point but since he is trying to sell his product he should have people test it out. Do you think any business is going to waste money and time in something that not a lot of people are going to buy. That is why businesses have people test there new products to see if people are going to like it.


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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:13 am 
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pooya13 wrote:
[...]Why are you trying to prove him wrong when the reviews haven't even been out yet?

The burden of proof is ALWAYS on the party making claims. Members of this forum do not need to "prove" anyone wrong. It is up to the person making claims to substantiate any claims that they make.
This is how science and lots of other things work.

With that being said, I was satisfied with the response from. Brian / AtomicCubeLube. Statements like "We consider XYZ to be a trade secret" are [Censored. Please be nice!] but his follow-up response is not.

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:48 am 
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Questions, and challenges about unexplained claims, are fine but let's keep it friendly, gentlemen. I, like others, am not happy to see the tone this thread has taken in many places.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:11 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
The burden of proof is ALWAYS on the party making claims.


I thought burden of proof was a two-way street. Or is that just in the agnostic world view?

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:06 pm 
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DLitwin wrote:
Questions, and challenges about unexplained claims, are fine but let's keep it friendly, gentlemen. I, like others, am not happy to see the tone this thread has taken in many places.
Work was hell this week so I was avoiding this topic as I didn't want to get involved in another thread which appeared to be turning into an argument. But I have to say I agree with Dave. I do see both sides of the argument and my own father later in his life was sucked into several multi-level marketing schemes like the Laundy Clean Ring which got me very upset at the time. My parents didn't have the income that they could afford to throw money away but at the end I gave in. It was something he wanted to do and it gave him something to do. It cost him more money then he ever made and he eventually got out of it on his own but sometimes its something you have to learn on your own. Note, I'm in NO way trying to compare this aluminum core business to the Laundy Clean Ring. I'm just wanting to explain where I'm coming from and why I tend to be very cynical when it comes to advertising. Had they said their aluminum cores were the next best thing since sliced bread would we be asking for proof? Balance, stability, longevity can be rather subjective terms and I think the group of people that visit these forums are a rather smart group of people. I'd hope none of us would blindly believe anything simply stated in an ad. I can think of reasons why I might want an aluminum core. If they offered a 3x3x3 which was 100% aluminum I'd be even more interested. Why? Just because I think it'd be cool to have an aluminum 3x3x3. In short if I buy something its usually not simply because of some claim made in an ad. Its because I've looked into the options myself and I chose to get what I wanted. Subjective claims made in an ad are just to get attention and in this case I'd say they have accomplished what they wanted to and I'm actually rather impressed with their latest responses to the questions. Ask yourself... do you eat at pizza shop "x" because they say they make the best tasting pizza? Are any of the other pizza shops in town actually claiming to make the second best tasting pizza?

So have some faith in your fellow consumers. I believe Atomic Cube Lube is offering a product with some value (not that I'd pay $95 for their core) but its their business and they can set the price were they see fit and I can make up my mind if I want to spend that or not. If its a specific claim they've made that has got me interested then I can certainly wait for the reviews to come out. At the end of the day, I'm NOT a speed cube solver so a 1% improvement in solve times (assuming something like that could reliably be measured) doesn't mean that much to me. It's not like they are claiming their cores can cure cancer or anything.

And to tie this back into the Laundy Clean Ring... I guess if they wanted to they could always claim you could add their core to a load of your laundy and never have to buy detergent again. It would be:

Easy To Use
Saves You Money
Chemical-Free Washing
Prolongs The Life of Your Clothing
100% Hypoallergenic and Environmentally Freindly

And on top of that its cheaper then the $104.95 plastic donut that someone took from this baby toy and filled with water.
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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:08 pm 
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^You took the words right out of my mouth. Great post Carl. Also, I'm looking forward to seeing some of the reviews of this, it looks like it could be an interesting concept.

Edit: Aww shoot, did I just accidentally bump. Sorry guys. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: ATOMIC CUBE LUBE GRAND OPENING - ALUMINUM 3x3 CORES - LU
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:21 am
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Jeffery Mewtamer wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
The burden of proof is ALWAYS on the party making claims.


I thought burden of proof was a two-way street. Or is that just in the agnostic world view?


No, the burden of proof always relies on the one making the claim. That is why we skeptics/critical thinkers don't believe in Big Foot or gods, etc.

But in this, the point is not "believe in this product without trying it", because they without a question need to proove that their product is what they claim to be; it's "don't be rude and wait for cubes to come out so you can test them".

It's not that hard, really.

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