But there's no picture yet...

Out of respect for all the other puzzle makers/designers that this website sells KO's of I have deleted this link.also has it.

Isn't this a KO so links not allowed?

What? I never heard of this policy here! I don't even know of this is a KO. It probably is tough, looking at the
Shall I remove the link?

The policy is well known and strictly followed so I would advise removing the link. It's not for me to say the 7x7x7 is a KO however so it's best to ask Dave for a ruling.

Is it? It is not a copy of the V7. If you were to use one to make a new 7x7x7 Open Bandage puzzle you would end up with something that looked quite different.

It certainly has conical cuts though. It's not a direct copy of the V-cube 7, but it's very similar. I'm pretty sure it's considered a KO.

Did you see the mechanism?
Also, I ordered it from over two weeks ago on March 25, but it is not here, and I have not recieved an E-mail yet. I paid $35 USD for mine, which is too much for this puzzle.

Are you sure they are conical cuts (which have curved surfaces) and not flat angled cuts providing a similar but not identical geometry?

I ordered mine at the same place that you did and mine just entered the US yesterday so I should have it soon. So no, I haven't seen this specific mechanism but I have seen what they did with their other puzzles (4x4x4, 5x5x5, 6x6x6, and 8x8x8) and I am assuming that this is the same as them. There are some similarities to the V-Mech but it is not a copy of it. It is actually more of a clever hybrid of the V-Mech and the Rubik's 5x5x5 mech.

Go back and read the rules again. You supposedly read them when you signed up. It is a condition of your membership here that you do so. In this instance, #14 is particularly important.

Thank you for deleting your link in the first post, but you forgot to change the title. See Dave's post here. I've had to go in and change all of them now.

And finally, just a refresher on the KO policy (yet again ) for any who might be in doubt that we have one. And for the record, this is stickied at the top of the General topics page. I'm not sure how you could be unaware of it but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time. Please go read.

Jack, your link while nice and informative, has already been addressed by Dave in a number of posts. Had Verdes not spent so much time and money designing his conical cuts (or whatever they are called) this company and many others like it would have nothing to copy. Had it been that easy it would have been designed before...

I'll add that the decision has been made by the moderators/administrators that the other puzzle made by this company was a KO. As such, please do not post photos of the internals of the puzzle until the moderators have had a chance to look at them. A decision will be made on that as well. We have no problem respecting the wishes of Tony Fisher or Oscar, lets do the same with other designers as well.

I approve, with this, but wouldn't it be good for once, to let everyone (that want ...) say their opinion? I know that V-cube worked hard, to get their "own" mechanism, but there is some limits. [removed] new designs, are creative, and I'm sure, that they worked hard, them to. Not much effort and money, then V-cube invested in their designs, but [removed] puzzles, are good and nice puzzles. And for the difference of price, there is not a big difference, plus if some one really want a V-cube 7x7x7, 6x6x6, etc, he will not go and buy a [removed], even if it's lower, and I seen a lot of people buying the [removed] cubes, and even the V-cubes version, after gotten the [removed]. And another thing, is that lately, V-cube as been a little bit lazy? (not sure witch word put ...), but this as already been discussed . Anyways, this is just my opinion.

Sure, and there are plenty of places outside of TwistyPuzzles to do so. On this site we try to have some respect for designers and this is an area where some opinions haven't been respectful.

If people aren't sure or disagree with our KO designations on a particular puzzle please PM a moderator or Admin. Don't just post links on the assumption that it isn't a KO.

Here is a good rule of thumb: Any production non-Verdes puzzle from 6x6x6 -> 11x11x11 is so far considered KO. I'd love to see a mechanism that doesn't borrow the majority of the Verdes design but I haven't seen one yet.

I respect innovation that builds on a patented design, but selling it without a license for the patented design on which it is based isn't acceptable to this site.

Dave

This is an exaggeration, but I would love to see flying carrots , but it won't happen. How many chance is there that some one can come out with a totally different mechanism, that would work as well, or better ... And get it mass produced.




I mean here, discuss of or opinion, if the puzzle should be considered a KO by this forum.

I don't speak for the moderators, but if you're unsure, you can always ask them questions.

That's been my experience. They've always been amicable and friendly towards questions like that (after all, it's easier to prevent a problem than to fix it once it's happened). Naivete is not a crime, but you need to make an effort to learn.

As far as KO discussions, like Dave says, there are other forums that harbor such 'illicit' discussions.

It seems we've already discussed this exact point here.
What this forum considers KO is not up to a vote.
This is Sandy's forum. He pays the bills, and he choses the forum staff to help him make and enforce the rules.
Deciding KO vs. not KO is certainly the least favorite part of my Admin duties. Why do I get to decide such things?
Because Sandy liked what I have contributed to his forum and trusts I'll make reasonable judgements to keep it the kind of place he wants it to be. This same trust applies to the Moderators and Admins that came before and after me. My views on what is and is not KO are heavily influenced by Sandy, sausage, Jin and Roxanne, and I suspect the reverse as well.

If you disagree that is fine. I like and respect many on the forum who don't agree with these designations. You are welcome to persuade me a designation is incorrect with pictures, explanations and arguments and I don't mind being wrong and changing my mind. And you can choose another moderator or Admin if you prefer.
Doing so in a PM, however, is polite as the content may not comply with our KO policies. Also, many on the forum really dislike it clogged up with KO discussion.

Dave

I have now removed the photos posted. Please do not load any more.

That's why I didn't talk much about it.




I don't mean doing one neither . What I mean, is it would be good, (not for every KO ..., but the puzzles, that are and are not), to let the forum members who want to, in a way or another, let us give our opinion, with a chance of "winning" our point.


This is one of the reason that I tell those that want to talk about it ...

Dave has already stated that he is happy to consider people's opinions through private communications and is open to changing a ruling if necessary. This will also be true of the other Admin / mods since all they ultimately want to do is the right thing.

Yes, but only my opinion is almost useless.

I don't recall any persuasive PMs from you on the subject.
But should I receive one, your opinion will be heard and will only be as useless as the value of the argument you put forth.

Plenty of people have discussed these matters (with pictures, and discussion) before and their points are welcomed and valued. So far I haven't yet been persuaded on higher order cubic puzzles. I have used the opinions of others on other designs and it is quite helpful.

Dave