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 Post subject: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:53 pm 
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This is the Helicopter Skewb, the second one in the world as I without knowing build this simultaniously with TomZ.
It is fully 3d printed and turns quite smooth even though it does not sound that way, though it may catch sometimes.
It is 67 mm high and does not require any screws or springs. The reason I choose not to sticker this before showing it is because as a mechanical engineer I am merely interested in the mechanism. I do not know when/if I will sticker this.
Tom has asked me not to offer this puzzle on shapeways
Firstly I personally do not see how I would not be allowed to sell this as I was merely beaten to it by shear luck/ chance. Secondly I feel that everyone should be entitled to know that if I were to sell this puzzle it would be about $100 - $110 dollar.
People have asked why my version is so much cheaper, I wonder the same as my version is bigger. Factors that play a role are that I put managed to get the 10% density discount and that I managed to get all parts exept for the core into 1 STL. Lastly I do not wish to put a lot of markup on a puzzle that I had to put nearly no effort into (it is a seriously easy puzzle to design)

I have also uploaded a poor quality video
I would like to hear what the forum's views are regarding me selling my version before tweaking it to remove the lock up and uploading it to shapeways.
I am not going to take a lot of time and effort to make a wonderfull presentation, I would however like it if the puzzle community would be able to play with such a wonderfull type of puzzle for a low price. If however there is no desire for this then I will not upload it.

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Last edited by Namegoeswhere on Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:07 pm 
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You are just as entitled to sell yours as Tom is to his. I really do like the puzzles. Question though, does yours do all the same kinds of moves that Tom's does?

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:09 pm 
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I think you should be able to sell it because its not like you copied his design you came up with this mech all on your own and therefore this is your puzzle and your design and you should be able to sell it. Just my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:09 pm 
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Congratulations on finishing this puzzle! It just so happens that the first person publishing it has the copy right. However I would personally grand you permission if I were the first, to sell your version as well. You were so close its unbelieveable.

so in this case I call a state of emergency

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:16 pm 
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Doubleyou wrote:
You were so close its unbelieveable.
It was not all that close. I like to present only finished puzzles. I had the raw, unassembled print in my hands over a week ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:19 pm 
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Doubleyou wrote:
Congratulations on finishing this puzzle! It just so happens that the first person publishing it has the copy right.

As TomZ's was black does this mean that legally a white one could be sold and wouldn't violate copyright (just curious, I'm not suggesting that TomZ is going to be really mean about this :wink:).

Alex

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:22 pm 
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nah thats silly! Tom has the rights to what ever color, purple or silver

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I believe it would work best with black plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:26 pm 
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TomZ wrote:
Doubleyou wrote:
You were so close its unbelieveable.
It was not all that close. I like to present only finished puzzles. I had the raw, unassembled print in my hands over a week ago.

If you were motivated enough, you could actually have published it later that night a week ago couldn't you?

How would you feel if it were you that were one or two days late?

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I believe it would work best with black plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:32 pm 
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Yes I was beaten to it by a suffient amount of time, but when I learned of Tom's version the parts were allready beeing printed. That beeing said I had planned to also have this puzzle produced a lot sooner but was unable to since I was preparing for and going to my vacation in Barcelona, aswell as having some exams. So really you can put up as much excuses as you wish but in the end due to some twist of faith my version was later, though beeing worked on simultaniously.

I do believe that after a slight increase in filleting my version will come very close to the turning quality of Tom's version but as previously said, at a much lower price.
I personally believe people will still get Tom's version as he has prooven himself as a puzzle designer. However I would love to offer a cheaper alternative.

Edit; and I feel that I should appoligize for the clumsy appearance in the video, I have never held a Helicopter cube before and I tried to jumble it at the wrong angle..

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:43 pm 
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Another 100% awsome design, and on the same day too! Although to be fair, your version looks like it needs a bit of polishing yet...

As for selling it, I say you have every right to sell it! Frankly, the I-made-it-first-so-I'm-the-only-person-entitled-to-profit-from-my-work mentality around here drives me rather nuts! A case could possibly be made for this sort of argument if you did this years or even months after the the first person got across the line, but that is clearly not the case here at all.

Get the flaws sorted out, and feel free to sell it!

(Ah, free market capitalism...)

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:45 pm 
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i think that your puzzle is your design and you have the complete authority and right to sell it ( even if you are late or not ) . you came up with it on your own and you deserve it .
the puzzles by both of you are great :D
i agree with the drizzle


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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:04 pm 
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Wonderful! It looks like the only thing that needs to be done is filleting, I think having the right sized fillets would make a serious involvement in the turning of the puzzle (less lock ups) I hope you offer yours for a cheaper price than Tomz' :P

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:18 pm 
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It sounds like this was a pretty clear case of simultaneous design. In such cases it is not really reasonable to deny someone rights to what was independently created.

Clearly Tom's was completed first and is in a more finished state but what is important is that one was not derived from the other.

In such a situation one can hope the parties involved, if both wish to sell their design, can come to some mutually respectful agreement regarding sales.

Many more seasoned designers and builders have expressed the value of selling only proven and refined designs. Applying that to this situation one might argue it is nice to share a new accomplishment (even if it was already created) but perhaps discussions of price and sales are premature until it is ready for sale. And perhaps courtesy would keep these discussions off the forum.

I can understand it might be frustrating for Tom to offer a new puzzle for sale and somewhat immediately have lower priced competition from a product that does not seem quite finished (well, certainly not to the level he has).

I think in these situations (which do occasionally happen) one has to simply realize that there are an increasing number of talented designers working on projects and sometimes these collisions will occur (the Face Turning Icosahedron is a great recent example).

What this means for sales is probably a sharing of the market which is inevitably disappointing to both parties. I think the reputation of the builder, quality of the puzzle, presentation of that quality, and price will be major factors in how those sales are divided.

With mutual respect (and both parties can well appreciate the work of the other to accomplish this ambitious goal) I would hope that competition and cooperation do not need to be exclusive.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:21 pm 
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I am well aware that there are some corners that need a larger fillet, that is the only thing standing between this and a "perfect"puzzle.
The video was shot before breaking in, the movement has become better.
The problem of that is that I cant get it back anymore :roll:
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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:00 pm 
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Hey, my congrats go of course also to you - crazy, that you both were building this puzzle more or less simultaneously. Although of different size, I'd be interested, if you both also had the same idea for the
mechanism or used a different approach. I admit I haven't read everything yet in both threads, so maybe
this has been explained already.

If you really can offer your puzzle for aound $100 - $110, I am thinking about buying one, too, for comparison
reason :) This is a situation and a chance that happens not so often!!

Cheers - Frank

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:25 pm 
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Judging from the pictures I saw on shapeways I use a somewhat different mech.
I use both a V cube mech for the Skewb and the Helicopter cube which results in 6 floating centres for the Helicopter Cube.
Other then that the idea is the same, Take a Skewb and build a Helicopter Cube around it. It will split the hidden Helicopter centres in 4 and the visable centres in 2, but work perfectly.

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:17 pm 
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I would think then that our mechanisms are entirely the same. Both my Helicopter and Skewb use a sort-of V-mech. Frankly, this mechanism is fairly straightforward. The size difference I guess I just a case of choosing different proportions for the mechanism.

So was the special turning a surprise to you? I discovered one type beforehand (the jumbling+Skewb) but it took a suggestion by (I think) Andrew to find the second kind once I had actually already made the puzzle. In fact, even with the puzzle in hand I initially told him that it could not do that move.

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:23 pm 
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This is really a coincidence. Congratulations to both of you!
It is almost unbelievable that the two mechanisms are so close to each other.
How this complex thing can be called "straight forward", is a riddle to me. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:51 pm 
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I had no clue what so ever about the added jumbling. Though I did expect the skewb turns after a partial Helcopter turn which became quite clear from the split Helicopter centres.

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:07 pm 
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I think it's awesome that people design puzzles and then find out they are way more awesome than they ever expected :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:33 pm 
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Is a non-jumbling version possible?? This would prevent "accidental" jumbling.

Per

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:43 pm 
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All we need now is a "Helicopter Cube 2x2)

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:52 pm 
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PotatoSpades22095 wrote:
All we need now is a "Helicopter Cube 2x2)


Already taken care of :)

If you want one I can upload mine on shapeways :)

- Greg

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 Post subject: Re: Namegoeswhere's Helicopter Skewb
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:21 pm 
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RubixFreakGreg wrote:
PotatoSpades22095 wrote:
All we need now is a "Helicopter Cube 2x2)


Already taken care of :)

If you want one I can upload mine on shapeways :)

- Greg


Oops! I meant to say "Helicopter skewb 2x2"
:lol:

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You can improve the quality of the turning by placing it in the trash.


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