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 Post subject: TomZ's Dino Skewb - PRICE LOWERED
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:23 am 
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This is NOT a Lattice Cube/Master Dino!

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This is, to my knowledge, the first ever Dino Skewb. It looks exactly like a Lattice Cube (Master Dino), but it is quite different. A Lattice Cube turns like a Dino Cube with turning tips. My Dino Skewb does not have those turning tips but, contrary to the Lattice Cube, it does have the deep cut of a Skewb.

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This puzzle could also be considered a Master Skewb. It has four "layers", just like a 4x4x4 "Master" cube. A normal Skewb has 2 layers, and a Master Skewb has 3. I think that there is good reason to consider both puzzles as Master Skewbs. I thought of naming it Master Skewb II but that'd just be confusing.

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Mechanically, the Dino Skewb is related to my Tetrahedral Twins. The puzzle is a build-up from the Twins' mechanism, a fully functional Tetrahedral Twins (minus the trivial tips) is present on the inside of the Dino Skewb. Forum member wwwmwww suggested this build-up when he saw the Tetrahedral Twins, and I rediscovered it when I was trying to design a Master FTO (or Master Skewb Diamond). But that project is on hold for now as I doubt it can be done.
Going from the inside out, there's a Skewb, Tetrahedral Twins and finally the outer Dino Skewb layer. Quite complicated :-)

The turning on the Skewb cuts is great, the Dino cuts have a little click to them because I needed the pieces to overlap a little to prevent gaps from appearing. I choose aesthetics over functionality in this case. But it isn't bad at all. The puzzle can be a little squishy at times, but overall I'm very pleased with the result.

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Last edited by TomZ on Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:00 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:25 am 
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love it :P : :D

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:11 am 
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This really is fantastic. :D

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:35 am 
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APJ wrote:
This really is fantastic. :D

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I support this statement!!!!!!!!
It's incredible how many new creations we have seen from you during the last months!

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:35 am 
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That looks legend!

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:57 am 
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Great job, it looks amazing!

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:09 am 
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This is 23 days overdue :wink: How big is it?

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:10 am 
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I always think it's cool when two puzzles look the same but have different cuts. Excellent work Tom.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:22 am 
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Really superb.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:23 am 
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Steryne wrote:
How big is it?

62mm. I think I could have done 57 or at least 60, but I played it safe.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:39 am 
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Steryne wrote:
This is 23 days overdue :wink: ...
I've not been able to solve the puzzle of this comment. I could not find any post from Tom on April 1st connected with this puzzle.
I recollect a post from Drewseph, though, that he is going to build Master Skewbs for those on his (pretty long) waiting list.
But that is not connected either with this puzzle?

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb (video added)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:17 am 
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23 days ago was April 1st or April fools day. Usually we see a ton of amazing puzzles on April 1st, and I was saying that this puzzle is amazing enough for a good portion of people here to wonder if it is real or not if it were April fools day.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb (video added)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:23 am 
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Wow.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb (video added)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:24 am 
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Wow Tom, this is just amazing, it seems like you are becoming the Drew of this year, you just keep pushing the limit. It is a beautiful puzzle :)

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb (video added)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:54 pm 
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Is this the equivalent of a 4x4x4 skewb? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb (video added)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:49 pm 
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Please tell me this will be released on Shapeways. I would be willing to take out a loan to buy this puzzle..

Also, EPIC WIN is an understatement.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb (video added)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:21 pm 
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TomZ wrote:
The puzzle is a build-up from the Twins' mechanism, a fully functional Tetrahedral Twins is present on the inside of the Dino Skewb. Adam Cowan suggested this build-up when he saw the Tetrahedral Twins, and I rediscovered it when I was trying to design a Master FTO (or Master Skewb Diamond).


Nice!!! But Adam wasn't the only one that suggested that...

http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=196269#p196269

By the way, will you be adding this puzzle on shapeways? Now that I'm employed again I'm really wanting to get a few of your puzzles. The first being the one I asked about here:

http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=196024#p196024

but this Dino Skewb and your Curvy Copter are on my want list too.

Great Work!!!

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb (video added)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:33 pm 
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TomZ wrote:
My Dino Skewb does not have those turning tips...

snip
TomZ wrote:
The puzzle is a build-up from the Twins' mechanism, a fully functional Tetrahedral Twins is present on the inside of the Dino Skewb.


Hmmm... Your Tetrahedral Twins does have the rotational trivial tips. Those would become the turning tips on a Lattice Cube. If your Tetrahedral Twins is fully functional here why doesn't this puzzle also have the turning tips?

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb (video added)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:40 pm 
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Oh dear, sorry for forgetting about you! Looking back at my chat logs, it looks like you deserve far more credit more than he does.
Technically, the Tetrahedral Twins inside is fully functional. To turn the trival tips, simply do a Dino turn, take out the corner cap and put it back in in another orientation.
I'll amend the first post.

I can't get the entire puzzle below the 500k poly limit of Shapeways. I don't really want to require customers to order several models for one puzzle so I'd prefer an approach where I sell only finished puzzles but I don't have the time for that as my final examinations start soon.
Right now, the puzzle is contained in two separate (and rather disorganized) STL files. I definitely don't want to have two items in my shop for one puzzle so the best I can do is one item that needs to be ordered twice. I think I'll do that but I need a little time to organize that.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb (video added)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:01 pm 
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TomZ wrote:
Technically, the Tetrahedral Twins inside is fully functional. To turn the trival tips, simply do a Dino turn, take out the corner cap and put it back in in another orientation.


Do the corner caps come out mid Dino turn? I can see them in the second picture of the first post.

TomZ wrote:
I'll amend the first post.


Oh I certainly didn't mean to take anything away from Adam Cowan. If he had the idea I was just pointing out he wasn't the only one.

TomZ wrote:
I think I'll do that but I need a little time to organize that.


Thanks!!! I can wait. Good luck on your finals.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb (video added)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:28 pm 
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Wow this is really something! Great work.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb (video added)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:52 pm 
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TomZ wrote:
TomZ wrote:
I think I'll do that but I need a little time to organize that.


Thanks!!! I can wait. Good luck on your finals.

Carl


Make that a double. I can't wait.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb (video added)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:51 am 
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This is amazing. It looks fun to play with!


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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb (video added)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:13 pm 
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Could you make the external tips functional too?

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb (video added)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:16 pm 
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Quirky-Cubes wrote:
Could you make the external tips functional too?


Then that would be a Master Dino Skewb. I think it would be fun if the skewb corners could twist, like how most people who haven't seen a skewb before thinks it moves.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb (video added)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:41 pm 
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It would be very silly to make the tips on this one turnable, because that would make the puzzle vastly easier and less interesting to solve.


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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - NOW FOR SALE
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:04 pm 
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Dino Skewbs are available for purchase now
I've made the puzzle available on Shapeways. It turned out to be a lot easier to arrange the parts nicely than I thought it would be. You can now buy your own Dino Skewb puzzle from my shop for just $320/€285. Please note that you need to order TWO COPIES of the model to get enough parts for a complete puzzle. The parts are not suitable for casting.
I will also be selling assembled copies for €300 but for those you'll have to wait a little longer than usual due to my exams.

Bram wrote:
It would be very silly to make the tips on this one turnable, because that would make the puzzle vastly easier and less interesting to solve.
My thoughts exactly! I think for the sake of having the set of 3 puzzles (Lattice, Dino Skewb and Lattice Skewb) that share this face pattern it would be nice to make it but for puzzling I think this one is the best of the three.

wwwmwww wrote:
Do the corner caps come out mid Dino turn?
No, they're held in place by a rim. They can be taken out quite easily but they're pretty stable when the puzzle is in use. In the long run I think they need to be glued. They're really only there for aesthetics anyway, the puzzle functions fine without them.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - NOW FOR SALE
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:52 pm 
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Beautiful puzzle Tom. Very well made and designed.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - NOW FOR SALE
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:53 pm 
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I think I cannot resist your € 300 offer. I hope that I can compare it with Drew's Master Skewb soon.
Good luck for your exams!

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - NOW FOR SALE
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:05 pm 
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a true dream puzzle.

this is what I meant, Olz. :)

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - NOW FOR SALE
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:42 am 
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One more discovery in classic shapes and cuts! These I like the most!

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - NOW FOR SALE
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:13 am 
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First off, awesome puzzle! I would love to buy one but i just cant afford it at the time, but it is defiantly on my wish list. Secondly I wanted to at least try to solve this on Gelatin Brain but it turns out that its not there. Ill have to bring it up at a different thread if that's okay with you TomZ.


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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - NOW FOR SALE
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:54 am 
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This was an awesome puzzle to see first hand. Shame it didn't have stickers.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:19 pm 
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TomZ wrote:
62mm. I think I could have done 57 or at least 60, but I played it safe.
53mm would have been a good idea, too. In that case stickers from a 3x3x3 could have been used.
Nice to see it with black body.


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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - NOW FOR SALE
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:41 pm 
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Any idea how well this would work in alumide?


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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - NOW FOR SALE
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:18 am 
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Some of the parts on this puzzle are a bit more flexible than I want them to be. In this case, Alumide would be a good option, however...

I don't think this would work well in Alumide, I don't think Shapeways would even be willing to print it to begin with. They want 1.5mm walls, the Dino Skewb has been hollowed out to 0.8mm to save on cost.

Wall thickness aside, the part that is equivalent to the two-coloured part of the Tetrahedral Twins has a very, very thin "arm/spoke" on this puzzle. In fact, it's the thinnest I've ever done - much thinner than the corner foot on the mini 5x5x5. In nylon, it bends but doesn't break. If it were made in Alumide it would surely snap under the stress of doing any turns.
To make it thicker, I need to increase puzzle size. Add to that nearly doubling the wall thickness, and you'd end up with a pretty expensive puzzle.

Has anybody tried dying Alumide? I think black with aluminium specks mixed in would look nice.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - PRICE LOWERED
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:03 am 
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I've decided to lower the price on the DIY Dino Skewb by $20. The price for the fully assembled puzzle remains at €300.
Combined with the coupon luz8l for 10% off, this is a great deal! Just $270/€240. Act now, because this coupon is only available until June 30th. Get your Dino Skewb puzzle now.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - PRICE LOWERED
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:26 am 
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I want this so bad. but it will take some serious time to save up for it.

Why is it that the discount discontinues at some point?

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - PRICE LOWERED
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:48 am 
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I have permanently lowered the Shapeways price but Shapeways is only temporarily giving 10% off.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - PRICE LOWERED
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:57 am 
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well thats really nice of you! and them! :) thanks

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - PRICE LOWERED
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:54 am 
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*clap clap clap* dude that is incredible :shock:
even chuck norris would bow down in awe here

that thing is so frikkin awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - PRICE LOWERED
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:27 am 
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I've received mine a few minutes ago.
Another masterpiece from TomZ. (I've got a Curvy Copter, too).
Thank you Tom for this amazing puzzle!
( I hope building it caused no conflicts with the preparation for exams :wink: )
BTW Tom has shipped it on Monday, today is Wednesday. This is the speed we are used to in good old Europe :lol: :lol: :lol:
The solve has to wait until I've solved the Crazy 3x3x3 from Daqing Bao (has arrived yesterday, seems to be a hard one!)
EDIT: The latter had been ordered from mf8, the normal colored version. I like the fresh colors and it does not appear cheap at all. I would prefer a black with stickers, though.

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Last edited by Konrad on Wed May 05, 2010 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - PRICE LOWERED
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:15 am 
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I'm glad you like it! No interference with my exams, I'll always find something more interesting to do than study :roll:
You got pretty lucky. I haven't even received the parts for the other one I'm building, and that one was ordered just one day later!

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - NOW FOR SALE
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:42 pm 
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TomZ wrote:
Some of the parts on this puzzle are a bit more flexible than I want them to be. In this case, Alumide would be a good option, however...

I don't think this would work well in Alumide, I don't think Shapeways would even be willing to print it to begin with. They want 1.5mm walls, the Dino Skewb has been hollowed out to 0.8mm to save on cost.

Wall thickness aside, the part that is equivalent to the two-coloured part of the Tetrahedral Twins has a very, very thin "arm/spoke" on this puzzle. In fact, it's the thinnest I've ever done - much thinner than the corner foot on the mini 5x5x5. In nylon, it bends but doesn't break. If it were made in Alumide it would surely snap under the stress of doing any turns.
To make it thicker, I need to increase puzzle size. Add to that nearly doubling the wall thickness, and you'd end up with a pretty expensive puzzle.

Has anybody tried dying Alumide? I think black with aluminium specks mixed in would look nice.


You hollowed those parts out to .8mm!!! When I was designing my 2x2x4-8 I was afraid to make the feet 1.7-1.8mm thick (Although I made these for a detail print because I dont like the grainy feel of sls). How did you get the parts to print that thin?

p.s. I'm curious would the feet I designed for my 2x2xn's work in white detail?

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - PRICE LOWERED
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 12:32 am 
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There is a difference between wall thickness and feature size. I'm not sure what you mean by feet (it looks like everybody I talk to means something different by it) and how you got the 1.7mm measure but for any feature you don't want to go much thinner.
At that size, it probably wouldn't last very long in detail. Quite possibly long enough to make a mold (not that you could cast anything like that) but not long enough to make a puzzle out of it.

PS: Try to quote only the relevant part of a message.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - PRICE LOWERED
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:00 am 
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TomZ wrote:
There is a difference between wall thickness and feature size. I'm not sure what you mean by feet (it looks like everybody I talk to means something different by it) and how you got the 1.7mm measure but for any feature you don't want to go much thinner.
At that size, it probably wouldn't last very long in detail. Quite possibly long enough to make a mold (not that you could cast anything like that) but not long enough to make a puzzle out of it.

PS: Try to quote only the relevant part of a message.


When I said feet I meant the hooks that hold the external pieces in (like with a 1x2x3). Also, I came out with 1.7mm after adding tolerances. How thick would I need to make the parts for them to be able to work in detail? (I wonder though, on shapeways it says the minimum wall thickness for detail is 1mm so 1.7-1.8 should work)

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - PRICE LOWERED
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:02 am 
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Please continue this discussion about wall thickness in this topic: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17125

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - PRICE LOWERED
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:16 am 
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TomZ wrote:
I'm glad you like it! ...
Yes I like it very much, indeed. :D :D :D
Today, I have started to play with it.
When I saw that the Dino Cuts are a bit harder to turn than the Skewb cuts, I decided to take it apart and to inspect the mechanism. (I've got if fully assembled and stickered from TomZ.)
I'm even more full of admiration than before.
The mechanism is the work of a genius!!!! :!:
I'm not a builder myself, but I assume that most of the design - if not all - is original TomZ, right?
If I'm right, you can show this to Pantazis and convince him, that there are new mechanisms.
BTW, I've lubricated it a bit more and it turns very decent, now.
I've used double-faced adhesive tape to hold the caps in place.
I recommend this, because it leaves easy access to the screws.
EDIT: @TomZ My puzzle is black as it should be. Have you ordered white parts and dyed them?
I've got a Shim's Master Pyraminx in black material. I cannot see a disadvantage. Maybe, the adhesion of the stickers is a bit worse than on your puzzles?

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - PRICE LOWERED
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:58 am 
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Good to hear you can appreciate the mechanism. It is definitely not straightforward, the design I came up with is deeply satisfying to me.
The Dino turns are indeed a bit harder to do. It's probably due to the complexity of the mechanism, a Dino turn also turns many pieces which makes it squishy.

To give people an idea of the Dino Skewb mechanism, here is a render of what's not visible from the outside:
Attachment:
inside the DS.PNG
inside the DS.PNG [ 129.01 KiB | Viewed 8067 times ]

This is what is revealed when you remove all of the outer pieces. If we were to remove yet more parts, we'll get to see a spherical Skewb.

I came up with the entire mechanism on my own, but I can't say I haven't had inspiration from others. Nearly all of my puzzles borrow something from the V-Cube patent and this one is no exception.

Yes, your puzzle is made from home-dyed parts. I do the dying myself because it is more economical. I can dye 5 puzzles in 50 minutes. Shapeways charges around $20-$30 per puzzle. I no longer think that Shapeways dying is bad, it's just expensive.

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 Post subject: Re: TomZ's Dino Skewb - PRICE LOWERED
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:26 am 
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weird mechanism...... but awesome puzzle!

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