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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:23 pm 
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I want to know how many "adult beverages" it took to get through that thing? Absolutely brilliant you two! I've been waking up every morning waiting for the pictures :wink: I'm glad they are finally here!

I'd like to know how long it took from start to finish?

Want to add one more puzzle to that box you're sending me?

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:43 pm 
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flambore wrote:
Ryan- just regular 300. I'd rather have the longer potlife. This one is about the same as the alumilite black.

Paul- we're not the mystery builder #1. I still don't know who that is, but we've been neck-and-neck with him. I have to give him kudos for doing this himself. I'm looking forward to seeing his completed.

I'm a little surprised nobody figured me out, since the one photo Drew posted had my desktop (the grey granite top) that's in every photo I post. Had I known he was going to post that, I would have put the puzzle on cardboard. Well, anyway, it's all in fun.


I did. Look back in the posts. I told everybody to look at the surroundings. On one of the others, tiles were realy obvious. On yours, It was harder. Though I usually don't give up on investigation, so I found You and _________ ______.(clue? I like puzzles, but ya never know whether it is solvable or not until it is done!) One of the anonymous builders was using plain white! epic hard, but again I am inpecible at investigating, found the user through his angles and picture-quality(only considered at the last second when I narrowed it down to two people, the higher quality one was the builder(S? I dind't know you were working with Calzone; are they with a partner?)


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:23 pm 
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katsmom wrote:
I want to know how many "adult beverages" it took to get through that thing? Absolutely brilliant you two! I've been waking up every morning waiting for the pictures :wink: I'm glad they are finally here!

I'd like to know how long it took from start to finish?

Want to add one more puzzle to that box you're sending me?

None on my side, but Dave's told me a number of times he was drinking a few. Maybe to cope. :)

No idea how much time went into this. A lot, that's all I can say, but well worth the time invested.

BTW, when you PM'd me about this, I *did* say, we weren't builder #1. :)

re: box- you want another puzzle? How about a chinese twisty snake? or maybe a 1x1? How about a white prism sticker pyraminx? I could probably dig up some other stuff. :)


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:30 pm 
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flambore wrote:
None on my side, but Dave's told me a number of times he was drinking a few. Maybe to cope. :)
From the looks of the finished product and the misalignment, I was thinking more than a few :lol:

flambore wrote:
BTW, when you PM'd me about this, I *did* say, we weren't builder #1. :)

That you did! #2 and #3 is close enough though! As it turned out, it was #1 an 1/2.

flambore wrote:
re: box- you want another puzzle? How about a chinese twisty snake?
I was thinking more along the lines of this one. And don't you dare send that snake back that I sent you!
And I still think it is a fantastic job.

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:47 pm 
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katsmom wrote:
flambore wrote:
None on my side, but Dave's told me a number of times he was drinking a few. Maybe to cope. :)
From the looks of the finished product and the misalignment, I was thinking more than a few :lol:

OUCH!!! For that comment.....here's what you can look forward to getting from me!
Image
Well, maybe I'll put half a brick in there just so you think you have something before you open it..... or this. :) Frank knows I'm a big fan of this!

Anyway, I just got in and I'm exhausted!! As Frank said earlier, I haven't slept much and/or at all in the past 5 days. More pics and possibly a video tomorrow. Sorry folks, but I need to get up in 4 hours and go back to work. :(

Thank you all for the comments....except you Rox :P


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:52 pm 
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Danny Devitt wrote:
Frank Morris is sort of like a superhero to speedcubers. See here, for instance.



Wow never knew that existed and it's actually not half bad. 3/5.

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:27 am 
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Thien wrote:
Danny Devitt wrote:
Frank Morris is sort of like a superhero to speedcubers. See here, for instance.



Wow never knew that existed and it's actually not half bad. 3/5.


I don' think my friends would get 3.14% of thoes jokes.

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:21 am 
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I want a video!!! we need a size comparison!

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:37 am 
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Wow. Congratulations to you guys. This is so awesome I can't think of a word that can describe it. I know this has been said a hundret times on this forum already and even saying this right now has been said already and is no good excuse and just can't describe how great this achievement is.
But I think I can come up with a word that might get fairely close to giving the puzzle the credit it deserves. It is a word I have found only a few times in the search function and that was used only in Off Topic I think (though it is a while ago that I searched and I didn't read all the posts):

Anyway, this Puzzle is UNTOUCHABLE. There is just no way there can ever be something better.
By finishing this you guys just got one step closer than 99.999% of the people in the world to imortality.
Allright maybe I am exagerating now. :wink: This just freaks me out.

(By the way, I have never seen these Frank Morris jokes, they are awesome. I like the one with the bandaged infinity most)

Edit: Of course I am talking to Drew as well when I say "you guys". It was him who made this possible and who is the reason that this one was built. So special thanks to you Drew!

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:24 pm 
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Video is up to Dave. He has the puzzle at the moment. :)


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:26 pm 
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PotatoSpades22095 wrote:
joey wrote:
joey wrote:
Probably has the same name as our Superman.
I was half right.
'our Superman' => Frank Morris (has the username Kal El) => Frank => flambore :D

how is superman connected to frank morris?
Danny Devitt wrote:
Frank Morris is sort of like a superhero to speedcubers. See here, for instance.

I think what Joey was actually referring to was that Frank Morris' username is "Kal El", which is a nickname for Superman in the TV Show "Smallville".

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:50 pm 
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SaiyanKirby wrote:
I think what Joey was actually referring to was that Frank Morris' username is "Kal El", which is a nickname for Superman in the TV Show "Smallville".


Well actually Kal El is superman's given name from the comic books. It is what his kryptonian parents named him but he was renamed Clark Kent by his adoptive parents. Ok sorry about the spouting of useless information.


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:16 pm 
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I can't think of any words that adequately describes it apart from these.

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:19 pm 
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monkeyman wrote:
Well actually Kal El is superman's given name from the comic books. It is what his kryptonian parents named him but he was renamed Clark Kent by his adoptive parents. Ok sorry about the spouting of useless information.

I just KNEW someone would say that. :P I was never a comic book person, (or a Superman person, actually...) so really all I have to go on for Superman is the recent movie and the occasional episode of Smallville.


Anyway, AWESOME work. AMAZINGLY fast build, I never would have imagined that a real Petaminx would be built so soon! It's only been what, a few months since the release of the Teraminx? O.o

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:42 pm 
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:shock:
There are no words.

Amazing, guys. I can't wait to see a video of it.


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:46 pm 
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Excellent work!

Also, I thought I was Superman?...


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:27 pm 
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Incredible. I thought there was a group effort being organized to build a petaminx. I had no idea that there were other people even considering one, much less building one. When I saw this topic in the New Puzzles forum, I thought to myself, "What? Another thread dedicated to this team-building?"

Then I clicked. And my world ended.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Wonderful, amazing, shocking, and beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.

flambore wrote:
Video is up to Dave. He has the puzzle at the moment. :)


Didn't you make 2?

-Pi

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:28 pm 
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I added a couple of pics as a size comparison at the beginning of this thread. I'll be adding more pics and info shortly.


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:36 pm 
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Calzone wrote:
I added a couple of pics as a size comparison at the beginning of this thread. I'll be adding more pics and info shortly.

very nice, thanks :D

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:43 pm 
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and a video maybe =)

please =D

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:48 pm 
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Drewseph wrote:
and a video maybe =)

please =D


I'm trying, but it's hard to shoot a video without a video camera. Maybe I'll just post a bunch of pics for everyone to print out and make a flip book. Anyway, I'm putting together some pics and info to post in a little while.


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:52 pm 
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Cool! Flip books! I love those! Will you do it before or after those adult beverages? I want to know if the pictures will line up or do I have to put them in the correct order? Just getting ready for another puzzle I may have to solve!

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:59 pm 
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its..... its beautiful..... drew you evil genius, as soon as they finished their baby you tell them another child is on the way. i cant wait for a video either.... great job (a tear comes to my eye)

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:00 pm 
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katsmom wrote:
Cool! Flip books! I love those! Will you do it before or after those adult beverages? I want to know if the pictures will line up or do I have to put them in the correct order? Just getting ready for another puzzle I may have to solve!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSrDnIVgVv0

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:02 pm 
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reeeech wrote:
katsmom wrote:
Cool! Flip books! I love those! Will you do it before or after those adult beverages? I want to know if the pictures will line up or do I have to put them in the correct order? Just getting ready for another puzzle I may have to solve!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSrDnIVgVv0

That looks awesome :D

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:32 pm 
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Calzone wrote:
Image


I am the only one who notices that his still isn't done, it is merely cast and assembled. It is the equavilant of catching the fish then filleting the fish: unless you are Japanese, IT STILL NEEDS COOKED!!! :lol:
SAND IT!


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:35 pm 
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I am actually concerned with the puzzle actually. why are all the parts so uneven. why are the center caps protruding? is this a result of using second generation pieces?

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:56 pm 
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re: the center caps protruding- Even the masters did that.


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:08 pm 
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Blazemann wrote:
I am the only one who notices that his still isn't done, it is merely cast and assembled. It is the equavilant of catching the fish then filleting the fish: unless you are Japanese, IT STILL NEEDS COOKED!!! :lol:
SAND IT!


Here's the deal! If I sand it, the dust will get into the puzzle and make it harder to turn than it already is! Then I'd have to take it apart and reassemble it. So unless you're volunteering to come here and reassemble sanding is not gonna happen! Think before you post!


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:13 pm 
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I actually found sanding my teraminxes after assemble helps make it turn better. the dust acts like a graphite lubricant.

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:14 pm 
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Drewseph wrote:
I am actually concerned with the puzzle actually. why are all the parts so uneven. why are the center caps protruding? is this a result of using second generation pieces?


I think some of the unevenness is related to the tension on each center piece. There is A LOT of stress on the centers. During assembly I tried to adjust them as I went along. Each time i was risking losing a big section of pieces. I had considered shortening the spring, so I can get more of the screw into the core. I'm going to try that with the next one.

Second generation pieces may be a factor as well. As I'm sure you're aware, each piece needs to be PERFECT for this to look and function as well as it should.

As far as the centers go.......you can see that they extend further than the balance of the pieces.
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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:18 pm 
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Difficult to turn? SPRINGS!?! well there's your problem. If there is anything I have learned in the teraminxes I have made is that Springs RUIN the turning, it causes everything to go out of whack when turning. and I always say "Maybe it'll work this time" and assemble with a spring, but always remove it for the same of better turning.

As for protruding center caps and such, that's deff a problem with the FDM printing, since thats not part of the design.

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:21 pm 
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Blazemann wrote:
Calzone wrote:


I am the only one who notices that his still isn't done, it is merely cast and assembled. It is the equavilant of catching the fish then filleting the fish: unless you are Japanese, IT STILL NEEDS COOKED!!! :lol:
SAND IT!


Wouldn't sanding it make it loose tis shininess? And wouldn't you have to disassemble it again to polish it?

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:24 pm 
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There's going to be so many stickers on this thing, you won't even see the plastic :)

I'm going to wrap some tape around this thing and remove the springs. Thanks for the tip Drew. Better late then never.


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:45 pm 
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Calzone wrote:
Blazemann wrote:
I am the only one who notices that his still isn't done, it is merely cast and assembled. It is the equavilant of catching the fish then filleting the fish: unless you are Japanese, IT STILL NEEDS COOKED!!! :lol:
SAND IT!


Here's the deal! If I sand it, the dust will get into the puzzle and make it harder to turn than it already is! Then I'd have to take it apart and reassemble it. So unless you're volunteering to come here and reassemble sanding is not gonna happen! Think before you post!


What part of Pensilvania?(God I suck at spelling) :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:55 pm 
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Calzone wrote:
There's going to be so many stickers on this thing, you won't even see the plastic :)

I'm going to wrap some tape around this thing and remove the springs. Thanks for the tip Drew. Better late then never.


Uh you don't need to take anything in. just pop moff a cap, and unscrew it, remove the spring and screw up again. move onto the next center, repeate

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:07 pm 
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The screws (regular DIY) fit snug into the centers. The screw head actually needs to be 'popped' into the center, then it turns freely. I managed to get one out. I removed the spring and replaced the screw. Unfortunately, the core isn't tapped deep enough for these screws to get the tension they need. A slightly shorter screw will more than likely correct this.

Builder #1 - I hope you're taking in all this info :D


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:41 pm 
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um wow I cant really describe how awesome this is with words :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:34 am 
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I think there are two different DIY screw lengths. The most recent ones are extra long. They screw stuff up. I've had to dig out some of the shorter ones to make some of the mods I've been doing.

Dave- I think we may have to do the half-spring idea you mentioned. I agree, I tried it on my core. When you remove the spring, you can't drive the screws far enough in to have the centers close enough. This will just make the faces really loose.


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:03 am 
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Calzone wrote:
Unfortunately, the core isn't tapped deep enough for these screws to get the tension they need.

LIES the core is tapered directly to the center (I'm looking at the files) ^_^

Besides just use plastic washers to will the extra space you need.

Flambore. NO, that doesn't work, you can't use springs. NONE period. I've tried cutting springs to 3mm long, with the same horrible results.
keep in mind this is for a teraminx though.
Also the screws I use are 4-40 1/2 inch long screws

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:19 am 
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Hm. It is in fact interesting that the puzzle looks loose and disaligned even though the beginning of your work with only 3 centers and adjacent pieces looks absolutely perfect.
I bet once the problem with the screws is solved and the springs got out as Drew suggested it will look better. And even if it doesn't, this is still awesome.
Btw, cann you post some pictures of turns?. I want to see 36° turns and all layers of one side turned and only 2 layers, 3 layers... And one where the outer layers are always turned just a bit further than the ones below. But you said you are taking more pictures so I guess we will see.

One more thing: I think with a puzzle of this size and this order, it might look just a bit better if the pieces don't have this much of a fillet. I find that outer fillets depend on how big and in this case small the pieces are. But as I said it looks awesome like this too.

EDIT:
First off all, he you can't quote anymore when you edit a post.^^ Well you can but the post are not here to be seen anymore so I would have to go back than copy and than edit again^^.

Anyway. As for the protruding centercaps I think I might have an idea why that happens and take a guess. Now Drew, you said it is not part of the printing. I think I have seen this "problem" before on one of your gigaminxes V1 in a video. The tolerance of the pieces adds up I think. In the drawing they are "floating" on "air" (though there's actually no air in a drawing^^) but in reality they just fall down and it adds up especially with a such a high number of pieces.
Still I have no idea why the pieces won't reach the same height as the center on the bottom face when you pick the puzzle up. If what I guess is true than they should actually "fall down" half a millimeter but maybe this also doesn't happen because of the tension of the whole thing.

I can understand that drawing the puzzle so that the centers are a bitt deeper from the outset seems wrong though.

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:48 am 
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I think it's an amazing piece of work.

The good thing about this looking out of allignment or what ever you call it is that people over here probably won't mass produce it. It kind of looks..um...not pretty as it stands. I know that Calzone and Flambore have the ability to pretty it up though.

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:22 am 
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katsmom wrote:
I think it's an amazing piece of work.

The good thing about this looking out of alignment or what ever you call it is that people over here probably won't mass produce it. It kind of looks..um...not pretty as it stands. I know that Calzone and Flambore have the ability to pretty it up though.


Not so. keep in mind these were FDM prints. which are not perfect. they have +/- tolerances and with so many parts they are bound to add up. for example. lets pretend on a petaminx you have the top row and all of the parts are just .001 inches smaller than their masters. and those masters (which are cast) are another .001 inches smaller than the originals. making them now .002inches smaller that the first printed set.
This could mean that the entire puzzle is off scale. if molds were machined than I think that the parts would be good enough to use as a puzzle.

but I agree, the faces should be less filleted. which has been addressed in my second revision I posted in the building thread.

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:50 am 
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Drewseph wrote:
Calzone wrote:
Unfortunately, the core isn't tapped deep enough for these screws to get the tension they need.

LIES the core is tapered directly to the center (I'm looking at the files) ^_^

So now you're saying I'm a liar Andrew!?! I don't care what you see in your files Andrew. I have the core and it DOES NOT accept this size screw which is why I mentioned the use of a shorter screw Andrew. Your negativity is not appreciated Andrew.


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:19 am 
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Andrew.


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:28 am 
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Calzone, calm down, my ^_^ eyes should be enough to show I wasn't being serious =P

although the cores hols to meet up at the center, your screws must be very very long. my DIY screws are pretty short

If i sounded rude I'm sorry. I guess when I try to stress something I capitalize. I don't mean to be yelling. in any case, I just wanted to share my findings when dealing with this stuff

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:43 am 
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I picked up a pack of the screws you mentioned, Drew. The heads are much smaller than the DIY screw heads. I agree with Dave. The DIY screw heads do not fit properly into the screw channel. Whether that's an issue of the newer DIY screws being slightly larger (they certainly are longer, and I think the heads are slightly wider), or the tolerances being too tight, the fact remains, the screws are too tight.

Having said that, the ones I picked up at Home Depot are much smaller, and should work fine. I also picked up some 3/4" long screws in case we need longer ones, which I think might be the case. As long as the core holes are as deep as you say, I'm thinking the 3/4 ones should be used so they can be anchored deeper into the core. The 1/2" screws are really short.

If the tolerances are as severe as you stated, then we get to a point where either you have to have the entire puzzle printed using polyjet, or the puzzle has to be made slightly larger to be more forgiving of casting imperfections. I can't see it working any other way. I plan to re-cast some of the parts that I know have some slight imperfections, but I can't see that causing all of the problems we're having. Perhaps the screw/spring issue is the root of our problem, but from reading your previous message, maybe we're SOL. If that's the case, it would have been nice to be forewarned that there's little to no possibility of making a clean, smooth successfully working puzzle. Yes, we built one, but it's about as good as my v1 gigaminx at this point. Ok, maybe a little better because it does turn..

Just to slow down the barrage of insults and negative comments, I would like to point out that we're working with close to 1000 parts that are as small as 4mm in some places. Since nobody else has produced one of these even to the point where we're at, I would appreciate just a little latitude. I/we certainly appreciate helpful suggestions, but the reminders that it's crooked, misaligned, looks ugly, or needs sanding, we can do without at this point. Obviously we were hoping to have it completed and stickered sooner, but we ran into some issues. Now we need to address those issue.

Everybody has 20/20 hind-sight.


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:59 am 
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flambore wrote:
it would have been nice to be forewarned that there's little to no possibility of making a clean, smooth successfully working puzzle. Yes, we built one, but it's about as good as my v1 gigaminx at this point. Ok, maybe a little better because it does turn..


Well I did in fact believe it would work. I point out the possibility of the problem being the second generation issue. and a first gen set of parts would work well. Either way if that doesn't then you are right. but I believe it can be done via good casting.

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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:04 am 
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flambore wrote:
Just to slow down the barrage of insults and negative comments....


I'd battle anyone who dare comment negatively on my two heroes. I want to have your babies.


On the real though, you guys did an amazing job, a feat that is already a piece of puzzle history.


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 Post subject: Re: PETAMINX- pictures added 2/4/09
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:06 am 
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Drewseph wrote:
Well I did in fact believe it would work. I point out the possibility of the problem being the second generation issue. and a first gen set of parts would work well. Either way if that doesn't then you are right. but I believe it can be done via good casting.

I still have high hopes. I think it can be done.


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