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 Post subject: The Master Pyraminx - now with video
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:51 am 
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New youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at7RcmLF80g

I'm going to keep this short for now as I am dead tired and have a LOT of things to do in the morning.

It seems like my pattern is to come up with something relatively new and/or original maybe once a year. As is the case with this most recent puzzle. I present to you the (mostly finished) master pyraminx.

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The puzzle uses the discontinued Diamond Skewb as the base. While butchering a perfectly good Skewb Diamond seems like a pretty foolhardy thing to do, my response was "Damn the torpedos! All ahead full!" The result is what you see before you. All other pieces were essentially fabricated by hand. Later I'll post some "raw" pics so you can see what the early prototype pics looked like.

Image

I did say it was mostly finished. That's because I haven't decided how I want the trivial tips to be secured yet and the puzzle needs tuning (a LOT of tuning!) but I am on a deadline and right now I'm just done building.

Image

The puzzle should be available for viewing in person at the San Francisco puzzle competition but honestly right now it's not much fun to play with. Like I said, it needs some internal smoothing work but since the important parts of the puzzle are done, the puzzle needs to take a major back seat to much more important things I need to attend to.


Oh yes, one last thing. I need to give credit to Jaap (who first seeded the idea it was possible), Okamoto (who PROVED it was possible), Jason "io" (for arguing the pyraminx vs skewb the idea), and Aleh (for selflessly providing the diamond). Thank you very much, gentlemen.

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:59 am 
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Wow!

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:07 am 
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Increible ¡¡¡¡¡¡

congrats Jin

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:11 am 
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Now this is another big reason to be in San Francisco!

:)


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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:12 am 
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Brilliant! I recognize the skewb diamond in the second picture but the pyraminx seems just a bit too small to provide the pieces for the added pyramids. It'll be interesting to see how you made those and what's holding it together.

I also don't think butchering a skewb diamond for this is a crime - a master pyraminx looks much more interesting :D


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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:23 am 
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:shock: :shock: wow!!! congratulations Jin!!! fantastic work !!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:09 am 
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Fantastic! Amazing work!


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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:44 am 
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Fantastic! Ever since I saw those pieces in the background of your other puzzle, I've been REALLY been looking forward to seeing this one.

Congratulations, it looks amazing!


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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:33 am 
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Just Wow! Jin, you're the true master of handcrafting.
It'd be interesting to compare it with the Okamoto's Master Pyraminx.
But it's made on base of mini-skewb.

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:31 am 
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Truely Amazing.

I would love to see some of these puzzles posted here go into production by Meffort's.


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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:35 am 
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That is sweet!!!


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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:50 am 
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Amazing Jin! Congrats. It looks beautiful.

I can't wait to see it in person!

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:59 am 
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magnets? or engeniousness?

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:31 am 
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Doubleyou wrote:
magnets? or engeniousness?


No magnets here. The MP can be made from a skewb and a few handmade parts, as Jin just demonstrated. And he did a great job at doing so.

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Last edited by TomZ on Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:25 pm 
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Congratulations Jin, it looks amazing. :)


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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:41 pm 
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wow, simply amazing

once you tune it, i would love to see a video

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:46 pm 
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This is a good tutorial you have to put on your website :lol:


Seriously great work :P


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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:48 pm 
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Aleksey wrote:
Just Wow! Jin, you're the true master of handcrafting.
It'd be interesting to compare it with the Okamoto's Master Pyraminx.
But it's made on base of mini-skewb.



Me too. I wonder if the Skewb Diamond base is more stable?

If so - hmm, maybe Jin could relay that info to Uwe?!

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:18 pm 
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Cripes! Faabulous. I have been waiting for this since your little teaser. I love this puzzle and you've done such a fantastic job. It was certainly worth the Skewb Diamond.


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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:27 pm 
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Well done Jin! I hope to have my MP finished in the coming months. I hope it turns out as well as yours did.

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:59 pm 
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*jawdrop*

This is simply incredible, Jin. You did an amazing job!

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:06 pm 
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It is great to see this one finished.

The craftsmanship is excellent. I am really impressed with how nice it looks.

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:22 pm 
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I've noticed something about this puzzle compared to the keychain based Okamoto puzzle. Namely that the larger skewb is more prone to "flex" which causes pieces to spread apart some. In some cases this can be good, but for this puzzle the effect is not ideal. A little more smoothing will improve turning, but the edges tend to shift a bit, which can cause the pieces to jam when turning.

I identified the main reason for the poor turning of the puzzle and it is fairly easily remedied. Unfortunately it's on its way to San Francisco right now and can't do a thing to it until it returns. Had I one more day I could have improved its turning dramaticaly, but alas...

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:57 pm 
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Jin, are you saying that the regular skewb's design that gives you that soft/springy feeling is actually to the worse for this puzzle? And that it requires the precision of an Eastheen cube or Rainbow cube instead? Think of it, this kind of makes sense.

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:35 pm 
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Great job!


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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:51 pm 
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Aleksey wrote:
Jin, are you saying that the regular skewb's design that gives you that soft/springy feeling is actually to the worse for this puzzle? And that it requires the precision of an Eastheen cube or Rainbow cube instead? Think of it, this kind of makes sense.


That's correct. The puzzle might actually be a bit WORSE in a larger size unless you are building the mechanism from scratch with the problems of a regular skewb in mind. I mean it still works fine, but in this case smaller might actually be a bit better.

For the curious, the mechanism is essentially identical to the Okamoto design. I found this out when io came down to the LA area for Siggraph and we had a small gathering.

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:37 pm 
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Wow, it finally shows its face :)

I remember the prototype from the LA meetup, and it was pretty impressive. I actually like this size more than Okamoto's, which felt like it was pretty fragile. It looks better black than the off-white plastic sheets I saw then too :P

Its also very interesting that Jason and Okamoto both figured out the same mechanism independently. When we opened up Jason's at the meetup and compared it to Jin's it was exactly the same.

Great work!

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:01 pm 
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I think it looks fantastic! I like the size of the puzzle and the build quality looks excellent.

I've often wondered how a Master Pyraminx is built. Visualising the octahedron within the tetrahedron has certainly clarified things.


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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:27 pm 
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Justin wrote:
Visualising the octahedron within the tetrahedron has certainly clarified things.


That's funny, I was just trying to see the skewb diamond in it, but I can't. :lol: Please don't point it out more specifically to me though, I want to try to figure it out!

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:24 pm 
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look for the corners that are more round than the others. That is the inner Skewb diamond.

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:48 pm 
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I believe so, unless the one at the meetup was borrowed :?

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:48 pm 
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absolutaly fantastic jin

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:36 am 
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Taylor wrote:
quote="professorcube5x5"]Its also very interesting that Jason and Okamoto both figured out the same mechanism independently. When we opened up Jason's at the meetup and compared it to Jin's it was exactly the same.

Great work!

Jason(io), owns one of Mr. Okamoto's Master Pyraminx.[[/quote]

Yes! Mine is a (fantastic) Okamoto Master Pyraminx. It's wonderful.
I think that professorcube5x5 is saying that when I came to the LA meetup I hadn't dared to take it apart yet and didn't know the mechanism.

But Jin- I can't wait to see this thing again Sunday-- I'll take a family picture. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:56 am 
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Jason, I'm believe that Okomoto's Master Pyraminx is made from a keychain skewb. In which case you should be able to pop the edges cubies that boarder the center triangle.

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:38 am 
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io wrote:
when I came to the LA meetup I hadn't dared to take it apart yet and didn't know the mechanism.

Actually that was the very first thing I did when I received the Master Pyraminx from Mr.Okamoto!
Besides, of courses, just making a few turns! 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:45 am 
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I just remembered this post-- Scroll down to Jin's first comment in this thread!

http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/view ... f=1&t=4733

That's funny.. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:50 am 
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io wrote:
I just remembered this post-- Scroll down to Jin's first comment in this thread!

http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/view ... f=1&t=4733

That's funny.. :)


hahahahaha that is funny :P but anyways Jin this looks great and to me I would actually like the bigger size. Fantastic work!

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:14 pm 
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looks very nice :D

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:06 pm 
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Very pretty indeed (and oh, I want one.. I just can't afford one, certainly not of this quality..).

One quick question: as I understand it, a Skewb Diamond is nothing more than a regular skewb with the corners truncated and the center squares built up with a pyramid. What made the Skewb Diamond particularly suited as a base for this as compared to the regular skewb?


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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:19 pm 
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The biggest reason is that the pyramid shaped extensions that fit over the square faces of a skewb are hollow. Plus I found out that the hollows are of a very consistent quality which made them a pleasure to modify internally. To state the obvious it would have taken a lot more extra work to make those parts from scratch.

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:29 pm 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
The biggest reason is that the pyramid shaped extensions that fit over the square faces of a skewb are hollow. Plus I found out that the hollows are of a very consistent quality which made them a pleasure to modify internally. To state the obvious it would have taken a lot more extra work to make those parts from scratch.


I think it just clicked for me how the diamond fits inside the full puzzle. Yeah, I can see now why you did this. The other way round would be essentially making a skewb diamond first and then doing the rest.


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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:31 pm 
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I still have no idea how you get those edges to hold on.

any chance you will leak this valueable info? I wont hestitate one sec buthering my skewb diamond for this

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:19 am 
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Great work Jin! I love it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:37 am 
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Doubleyou wrote:
I still have no idea how you get those edges to hold on.

any chance you will leak this valueable info? I wont hestitate one sec buthering my skewb diamond for this


Imagine your skewb diamond as the center of a pyraminx. Then all you need to do is take a look at Jin's 3x3x5 technique and presto, you've got yourself one shnazzy looking master pyraminx.

That of course is only the mech, successfully building it is an entirely different story.

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:38 am 
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io wrote:
I just remembered this post-- Scroll down to Jin's first comment in this thread!

http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/view ... f=1&t=4733

That's funny.. :)



Hmmmm... Well it's a good thing I forgot about having said that. Otherwise I may have never built this thing for the sake of being true to my own word.

Actually I blame you. Had you not uttered those two cursed words (skewb... diamond...) I never would have done this and I could have saved myself a lot of hours of building and had some of my life back! It's because I keep saying that the pentultimate owns YOU, isn't it! :evil:

Well I better get back to folding more squares of paper...

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:52 am 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
io wrote:
I just remembered this post-- Scroll down to Jin's first comment in this thread!

http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/view ... f=1&t=4733

That's funny.. :)



Hmmmm... Well it's a good thing I forgot about having said that. Otherwise I may have never built this thing for the sake of being true to my own word.

Actually I blame you. Had you not uttered those two cursed words (skewb... diamond...) I never would have done this and I could have saved myself a lot of hours of building and had some of my life back! It's because I keep saying that the pentultimate owns YOU, isn't it! :evil:

Well I better get back to folding more squares of paper...


Ha ha! Yep, I've had my revenge now. :)

I only saw it across the room. David Litwin saw me look at it and sadly motion that I couldn't leave my table.

:(

It looked great from afar! Maybe next time I see it I can get that tetrahedron family photo.

I think it was only out for a bit since David wisely decided that it would be safer put away.

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:16 am 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
Well I better get back to folding more squares of paper...


I'm surprised you never get tired of folding that damn paper! You should try building puzzles, apparently the two are pretty similar :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:53 am 
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Scott Bedard wrote:
Doubleyou wrote:
I still have no idea how you get those edges to hold on.

any chance you will leak this valueable info? I wont hestitate one sec buthering my skewb diamond for this


Imagine your skewb diamond as the center of a pyraminx. Then all you need to do is take a look at Jin's 3x3x5 technique and presto, you've got yourself one shnazzy looking master pyraminx.

That of course is only the mech, successfully building it is an entirely different story.


That's what I'd figured out for the 3 tetrahedra in the extensions, too. You can just about tell which bits are Skewb Diamond and which are additions because of the rounding of the points & edges being different.


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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:27 am 
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Wait... if you can make a Master Pyraminx from a Skewb Diamond mechanism... can you make a Professor Pyraminx from a Face-Turning Octahedron mechanism?


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 Post subject: Re: The Master Pyraminx
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:34 am 
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In theory, it could work (HINT: Quick, go and do it!!!!)

The pieces would have to be heavily modified, the points of the pyraminx would be tricky to make I think, but hey, prove me wrong!

P.S. Jared, you're not thinking outside the box enough, we have to wait for a face turning master octahedron and we could get a V-Pyraminx 6 ! :lol: (Sorry for the pathetic name, I've only just thought of it!)


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