Hmmm... it just dawned on me. Why is this called the Master Kilominx?

The Master Pentultimate has one added cut per axis of rotation over the Pentultimate.
The Master Skewb has one added cut per axis of rotation over the Skewb.
etc.

Here this puzzle has TWO added cuts per axis of rotation over the Kilominx. Ahhh... I'm used to calling the 4x4x4 a Rubik's Revenge but I see it can also be called the Rubik's Master Cube. If you ask me we've really cobbled the use of this term in naming Twisty Puzzles.

Oh well,
Carl

P.S. Still a very nice looking puzzle regardless of what its called.

I agree that our method of naming puzzles is not accurate, but old habits are hard to break.
Anyway, I thought someone has said that there is no parity on this puzzle?


It isn't hard to fix, but it surprised me.

I agree Carl, the term "Master" is not used consistently. Sometime it means "slightly less deep cut" such as the Master Pentultimate. Sometimes it means "adding a layer" like the 3x3x3 -> 4x4x4. Sometimes it means adding "adding 2 layers" like the Kilominx -> Master Kilominx.

It's a really bad term but most people know what you're talking about when you use it so it sticks.

Wouldn't the master version of the kilominx be the megaminx? I always thought the term "master" was just generally used for one order higher.

To me the term master is only really well defined when applied to deep cut puzzles.

The Master Skewb takes a deep cut Skewb and adds a slice layer. None on the pieces in the slice layer are present on the Skewb. But all the pieces of the Skewb are still present in the puzzle.

The Master Pentultimate takes a deep cut Pentultimate and adds a slice layer. None on the pieces in the slice layer are present on the Pentultimate. But all the pieces of the Pentultimate are still present in the puzzle.

By this logic the Master Cube should be the 3x3x3. It takes a deep cut 2x2x2 and adds a slice layer. None on the pieces in the slice layer are present on the 2x2x2. But all the pieces of the 2x2x2 are still present in the puzzle.

So by this logic there isn't a Master Kilominx. The Kilominx is already an order = 2 puzzle as it has 2 cuts per axis of rotation. If you widen the meaning of Master to mean the next higher order puzzle you need to have a puzzle with 3 cuts per axis of rotation. That is an odd number so one of them must be deep cut. That means you might be able to call the union of a Kilominx and a Pentultimate the Master Kilominx but I'd prefer to keep Master reserved for puzzles where a slice layer has been added to a deep cut puzzle such that all the original pieces are still there and all the pieces in the slice layer are new. This is what keeps the Megaminx from being called a Master Pentultimate as it IS 1 order higher then the Pentultimate.

Carl

P.S. Here is the list of puzzles which I'd call "Master"

Face Turn Cube: 3x3x3

Corner Turn Cube: Master Skewb

Edge Turn Cube: I'd say these are equivalent to a Master Little Chop or Master 24-Cube:
Gelatinbrain 3.3.6
Gelatinbrain 4.3.4
Solar Octahedron
Toru
E.T.H.A.N.

Face Turn Dodecahedron: Master Pentultimate

Corner Turn Dodecahedron: Master Chopasaurus
You can see what one would look like in the second animation of this post. There I call it Hybrid of 1.2.8 and 1.2.9 as its between these two Gelatinbrain puzzles.

Edge Turn Dodecahedron: Master Big Chop
This is what I call ETD20.5 here.

Considering that a Chopasaurus has been built I wonder how close we are to seeing a Master Chopasaurus? I suspect most of these pieces are already present inside the Chopasaurus.

EDIT: added P.S.

Ok lets call it a 4x4x4 Minx then
I completely agree with you Carl. Very well put.
It is just that this puzzle has been called Master Kilominx for so long now that it is way too late to change it again.

@Matt nice video! thank you! Answered about every question I had Nice puzzle!

I'd also be ok with the Revenge Minx. Am I the only one to still call a 4x4x4 a Rubik's Revenge? Just haven't heard that term used in a while.
I realize that. Doesn't mean I have to like it (the name that is). I actually quite like the puzzle. There is one version of this puzzle which I think might actually look nicer that I have yet to see made. The Kilominx cut forms a "V" on the face of the puzzle. These look alot like the Asymptotes of a hyperpola. See the red dashed lines in this figure.



The blue line is x^2 / a^2 - y^2 / b^2 = 1 and to give the red lines the correct angle:

a=1
b=tan(72degrees)

I'd like to see this puzzle made where the second cut goes halfway in toward the center. I'd the edge of one of the pentagonal faces would line up with 2.0 vertically on this graph. Someone with better photoshop skills might be able to cut out a 5th of a face from the above graph and rotate in to make the 5 copies and make a better picture then I can make at the moment. But I hope you get the idea.

Anyways... I think that would look better.

Carl

I lied, I don't know how to fix it.

Milky yellow?!? Me wants black one.

More milky white . But thanks for my new signature XD.

Come on the black version.

Here there is no parity. It only two 3-cycles!

MF8 is down at the moment but I am pretty sure that's what it said. HKnow says "Milk Yellow Color"

r'D'r U r'Dr U' r'D'r (first switch)
U2 L' BL' B' U2 (setup)
r'Dr U r'D'r U' r'Dr (second switch)
U2' B BL L U2' (undo setup)

Is one way to fix it. Like said earlier it is just two cycles.
I doubt it is the shortest way to solve it, but I failed to produce a shorter alg with what I know, and the lack of the puzzle itself. (I had to use a computer-MasterKiloMinx)

Yeah, but in the pictures it more look's like a milky white. And normaly when it's: "original plastic color" isn't it like a whitish color?

Notation:



The circuit of rearrangement:



Algorithms of rearrangement:

1) l (D¹)' L'' (R' F R f R' F' R f') L2 D¹ l';
2) b' D² B2 (r' F R' F' r F R F') B'' (D²)' b.

r=inner layer only

[R' U R U': (r U2 r' U r U2 r') (r' U2 r U r' U2 r)]
= R' U R U' r U2 r' U r U2 r2' U2 r U r' U2 r U R' U' R

I've not got one yet, they were out of stock when I tried to buy, but I'll get one at some point since it should be fun. Found this on my gigaminx, fairly easy to remember.

For those in the notation topic who might pick up on the fact that this isn't consistent with the notation I gave: nobody seemed to notice mine so I'll just use the 'standard' one.

It can be done in 2 parts, similarly to 4x4x4 cube.

1. (Rr) FuF' U2 Fu'F' U2 (Rr)'

2. (Ff)' U2 R'u'R U2 R'uR (Ff)

20 block turns in total ... I hope notation is quite obvious!

Per

PS!

Commutator notation:

1. (Rr) [FuF', U2] (Rr)'

2. (Ff)' [U2, R'u'R] (Ff)

Does anyone know what's going on with the colors on this one? At first you could only select white, but it was almost always out of stock, and then you could only select black, and that was almost always out of stock too, and now after being out of stock for several days you can only select 12 color....

I keep checking every few days to try and buy a black one, but haven't been able to so far. If black ones don't become available in the future I'll be very sad :/

Edit: I just found the other thread about these, it sounded to me like the white/black ones were a limited trial run to be replaced by the 12 color ones. Unless I read that wrong, "NOOOOOOOOOOOO". MF8, please stop only producing puzzles in solid color. I know it's only a portion of your target market that would prefer white/black puzzles, but myself and many others will not buy your products otherwise. As a company, you clearly have the infrastructure to produce this; it can't be that difficult to produce black/white versions AND solid colored versions of your puzzles.

Hey Calvin,

Will you be selling the 12 color Kilominx soon?

The mf8 website has now been updated to show pictures of the colored plastic version, which can now be ordered. But it looks like the black body version may be gone forever, unless we put pressure on mf8 to do the black body like they did for the crazy planets 3x3x3 series. I suppose it also depends on the demand.

I second the above "NOOOOOOOOOOOO" and request to continue production of all black/white Master Kilominxs. I broke my own rule and bought a colored plastic non-crazy circle tetrahedron, as I want to apply positive pressure towards releasing regular circle puzzles in addition to the crazy planets series, but the Master Kilominx doesn't seem different enough from a Gigaminx solve to get an IMO cheap looking colored plastic puzzle.

(Unless the acetone dyeing happens to work very well on it...)

Yes, 12-solid-color master kilominx has been already on shelf.
Kindly see below,

Sexy!

Yes, I have the same question and I have projected to make a test on a crazy megaminx (this is a puzzle I want to have but not in coloured plastic) in january pr february (when I will have enough money to buy one in addition to a starminx...). But, It was easier to buy a milky yellow master kilominx and dye it in black than dye this one. Too late now, it is out of stock!

And I am with everybody who want to stop the odious tyranny of coloured plastic puzzle. Please stop this insult to "good taste" and "easthetics".

There's a whole thread about this here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21990

PS, I can't wait to get it
Cheers,
Burgo.

Exactly, and I have participated to it!

Usually I do not mind the colored plastic only puzzles so much, but for this particular one, I don't like it at all. I will not buy unless they sell in a solid color with stickers.

Black, white, coloured .... it is all down to manufacturing costs. If the puzzle pieces are designed to be assembled so that, if the sub-pieces are coloured, then a puzzle can be made without putting stickers on, then it will be cheaper. I assume that it is very time-consuming to place all the stickers (by hand?), especially when they are very small, and a slight mis-alignment will have all you black puzzle fans foaming at the mouth. Or they could supply it unstickered, which people have also complained about. Or they could charge more for the black stickered version, which no doubt people would complain about. It's lose-lose for the puzzle manufacturer.

In this case, I won't buy puzzles anymore.
And I will use my money in wine maybe ?
Drink more, cube less!

Is there anyone who would turn down a solid black/white puzzle because it didn't come stickered? Selling the black/white puzzles as DIY kits only would surely satisfy the segment that does not want colored plastic without adding labor costs to sticker the puzzles. It would just save me the time scraping off the original stickers and replacing them with nice Cubesmith ones to match my other puzzles of the same shape.

Bleh, another puzzle I will not be buying because of colored plastic.

Oh well, it looks like I've just saved myself another $42. I would be a much poorer person if they didn't invent these coloured plastic puzzles. It's all good, I suppose.

"Odious tyranny"?



It's a toy.

And taste and aesthetics are relative.

I ordered the colored plastic Master Kilominx from Calvin. I have several puzzles with the colored plastic and on the plus side, no stickers!!!!!!!! Also, the puzzles always look new.

At the risk of being attacked for lacking taste , I hope mf8 continues making colored plastic puzzles.

I do believe I resemble that remark.

Hmm. It looks like the master kilominx with solid colors has spikes and not adjustable screws. Is this correctly observed?? Would it be possible to make the core "visible" such that multiple solutions are no longer possible?? (apart from the obvious indistinguishibilty of same color centre pieces...)

Per

Well my 12 colour solid version came today. While I don't at all agree with those who won't buy puzzles because they're solid plastic (obviously, since I bought one), I do feel this one has quite a "cheap" look and feel to it. I've been turning, without scrambling, quite a bit and many pieces are popping and catching. I've tried tensioning and untensioning the screws but nothing seems to be helping. I'm wondering for anyone who has one, have you found what to do to fix the popping/catching problem? This is another recent mf8 puzzle where the pieces are catching and popping. I hope it's not a trend as it's fairly frustrating not really being able to scramble with a free heart.

Hi Rline & Per,

Solving is a bit like scaling a fish . Seriously though, I'm getting a bit sick of the `near enough` catching, exploding puzzles too. I'm going to let others go first and watch the reviews and only shell out if they turn well, it's going to become a major part of my criteria. I mean, all the new puzzles are fun, but I think some are being rushed to production.

The internals on the coloured version are coloured too, interesting I guess? But it does somewhat spoil the party with the centres being recognisable. And then.. I guess, if you wanted to solve it as a Gigaminx, you could remove all of the centre corners for the multidodecahedron-ish-version.. but why ? I guarantee your Gigaminx turns better if you want to solve one.

I don't think it turns `that bad`, it will need a light sanding on the seams, just such a pity they didn't make all the internals white.
Rline, if it pops too much you could superglue the centre corners on.
Per, there are screws.
Interesting edge parity.
Cheers,
Burgo.

Burgo

Where exactly would you superglue them? I take off a kite-shaped center-corner and the only place i can see to do it is right at the top where there's a little hole. I also recoil at the prospect of having to do that to 60 pieces.

I'm still hoping that someone has found the way to tension the screws so it doesn't need any drastic measures.

Yes, that's where you would do it. I don't like the idea of gluing it much, because once it's done it's done, you know, but it is an option that I'm looking at and I think I'll do it eventually.

I used 800 sandpaper and gave the whole thing a going over on all the seams and it made it really nice. A bit of lubix and some tension adjustments made turning very smooth, apart from the clicking over in the centres if they're not perfectly aligned.. makes the nice corner cutting ineffective. The thing that I'm noticing is that the centre corners are getting little chips in them from clicking over each other.

It's a really beautiful looking cube though, and turns super smooth, like ice.
Cheers,
Burgo.

Just don't call it a cube please. Not on this forum

Per

Yesterday I picked up mine at the customs office. I had to drive 60 km and pay some import VAT because the little green customs declaration got lost during the transport. I sent mail to Calvin and he promised to paste the declaration firmly onto the package next time.
I do not have to add much about the puzzle, everything has been said already.
Yes, the centres pop a bit. I'll try Blue Tack before I use Superglue. Yes, black body would be nicer for me, but coloured plastic has its advantages too. Yes, it is a bit of a spoiler that they used coloured plastic for the internal parts.
The colour scheme is identical to the other coloured plastic dodecahedra from mf8:

My solution for the necessary 2-2 swap of edges in the last layer (two 3-cycles indeed; theoretically you can avoid this on a coloured plastic puzzle by looking at the colours of the internal parts. The overhead would be too high, though and it would be some kind of cheating, too.) :
Gelatinbrain
B'&2, C, A', B, C', A, B&2, A', C, B', A, C', F', A, B', F, A', B'&2, C, A', B, C', A, B&2, A', C, B', A, C', A, F', B, A', F
TP notation:
[u' [R F' U R' F] u [F' R U' F R']] [L' F U' L F'] [u' [R F' U R' F] [u [F' R U' F R']] [F L' U F' L]
34 moves are pretty long but only four slice moves.
The result on a solved Gigaminx is (I do not have a computer program for the Master Kilominx):

We discussed the notation here.

Such effort seems pretty worthless if everybody invents his/her own notation.
At least it would be nice if people who do not like the `TP standard`explain their own notation.
E.g. I cannot interpret this:If I use the mentioned TP notation the result of `first switch` is D'.
Most likely DR should be used instead of D, but I gave up, because I wouldn't know what B and BL are.

In this casethere is a little typo and the second and third U2 should be U2' (or U'2). 20 moves are pretty short.
Gelatinbrain counts 24:
C, C&2, A, B&2, A', B2, A, B'&2, A', B'2, C'&2, C', A', A'&2, B'2, C', B'&2, C, B2, C', B&2, C, A, A&2

BTW, my usual sequence for this two-two swap on a 4x4x4 is 6 moves: r2 U2 r2 (Uu)2 r2 u2

Hi Konrad & Per,
Sorry to hear that you had to go to all that troube to get your `puzzle`. I think MF8 should have done exactly what they did, but just made a white megaminx cap to cover the screw.. it would look neater too.

You have a simulator you can use.. the Bo Hu Circle Master Kilominx 1, but just ignore some piece types .

Per, the evidence would suggest it `is` (or wants to be) a cube because it has the Revenge parity .. only to think what I have called a `cube`.. and my cube cabinet is going to look emptier now !

Cheers,
Burgo.

Hey Konrad, great post as always. Can you elaborate on how this could be avoided by looking at internal parts? You can do that 2-2 swap "pure" without moving anything else. Is there a middle edge between the two edge wings that is visible? I'd be bummed if the inner colorod plastic didn't match the outer solved color scheme. Perhaps it's good that I bought a "milk yellow" version after all.

Hi Brandon,
Yes the internals (hidden edges and centres) are all coloured exactly as the Gigaminx, but you can only really see the internals (other than the centre) if you remonve the inner corners. So it doesn't really affect the look of the solved puzzle. I just solved the parity when it first became apparent, so I broke and rebuilt 3 edges, it's interesting that Konrad is doing it pure.
Cheers,
Burgo.

@Brandon: Burgo has answered your question already. If you press the edges a bit outwards you can see the Megaminx edge of the inner core. You would have to do this much to often, so it does not pay off. The centres are much better visible, but they are much less of a spoiler.
@Burgo: The sequence given by Per is pure too and it is shorter. This is the result on a solved Gigaminx:

In TP notation (typo corrected):
R r F u F' U2 F u' F' U'2 r' R' F' f' U'2 R' u' R U2 R' u R F f
In Gelatinbrain
C, C&2, A, B&2, A', B2, A, B'&2, A', B'2, C'&2, C', A', A'&2, B'2, C', B'&2, C, B2, C', B&2, C, A, A&2

I find Brandon's sequence utility quite handy for such translations.
@Brandon: I get this error message when I cut and paste the sequence from Gelatinbrain to your utility
but it works.

EDIT: Corrected two typos.
@Burgo: What does this express:Scaling a fish is a messy job??? Solving it is messy??? My English skills do not allow me to understand your joke.Mine has screws!