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 Post subject: Explaining KOs
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 3:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: Michigan
My friend told me today what he was going to get me for my birthday. (he described it as a geared rubiks cube) I asked him if it was a Meffert's and he was confused. Then he told me it was an IQ gear rubiks cube or something along those lines. I just recently got into cubing, and didn't expect a puzzle as a present so soon. (one that I haven't asked for) I don't know if he ordered it yet or not, but that's not why I made this post. I want to know how you explain KOs to non-cubers. Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: Explaining KOs
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 3:55 pm 
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Like how one would explain normal KOs. They copy the designs from original designers and sell them for a lot cheaper due to the fact they don't have to go through any prototyping stage.

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 Post subject: Re: Explaining KOs
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 3:58 pm 
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Ok thanks. Are there any red flags for spotting KOs? (other than IQ cube, Magic cube)

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Rentlix wrote:
What I like about this puzzle is how if you haven't seen an Oskar puzzle before you don't have a clue how it's supposed to turn.


Oskar wrote:
Am I becoming some twisty Chuck Norris, or so?


Check out my blog

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 Post subject: Re: Explaining KOs
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 4:05 pm 
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Over a couple of years of puzzling you develop an uncanny knack of being able to detect KOs (at least I have). I say that because it sounds cool, but honestly brand, price, and where it's being sold are all factors.

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3x3x3 single: 5.73 seconds.
3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds.
3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.

Buy the Curvy Copter Skewb, NovaMinx, and more here!


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 Post subject: Re: Explaining KOs
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 4:06 pm 
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Technically, a KO is an illegal, unauthorised copy of an original, protected product, design or other form of intellectual property. However, here at TP we tend to extend the definition to include unauthorized copies of unprotected original designs (which are technically legal, but arguably unethical), out of respect for the original designers.

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Last edited by KelvinS on Tue May 17, 2011 4:41 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Explaining KOs
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 4:11 pm 
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Luke wrote:
Over a couple of years of puzzling you develop an uncanny knack of being able to detect KOs (at least I have). I say that because it sounds cool, but honestly brand, price, and where it's being sold are all factors.


Yes, but what about non-cubers giving them as a gift?

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Rentlix wrote:
What I like about this puzzle is how if you haven't seen an Oskar puzzle before you don't have a clue how it's supposed to turn.


Oskar wrote:
Am I becoming some twisty Chuck Norris, or so?


Check out my blog

Follow me on Twitter


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 Post subject: Re: Explaining KOs
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 4:19 pm 
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Not really. Give them a list of what you want and where to buy them (without sounding rude and demanding puzzles for no apparent reason).

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3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds.
3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.

Buy the Curvy Copter Skewb, NovaMinx, and more here!


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 Post subject: Re: Explaining KOs
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 11:15 pm 
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Location: Bay Area, CA
Great responses guys, it's a breath of fresh air to see a topic with KO in the title that is extremely positive :)

How to spot a KO? Price is usually the best indicator I have found. If you see a puzzle at Meffert's for $18 and somewhere else for $6, it isn't hard to guess there.

But those are the easy cases. Sometimes a producer makes a run of puzzles based on a designer's hard work here and gives them no credit or royalties. There is no "authentic" mass produced item to compare prices, but we still consider it KO out of respect for the designer getting nothing (example: Adam Cowan's Axis cube).

Even harder are puzzles where the design isn't 100% identical but clearly derived, or perhaps the design is identical and unique, but the mechanism may be different. Hard stuff, and it takes up too much of my time considering such things.

It isn't this site's intention to say what anyone can or can't buy. We take a stance based on our respect of the designers that make this forum great, which is why I find it is worth my time to do my best to be respectful. Not everyone can spend the time to look into these things, and of course non-cubers can't be expected to have any idea.

If you care about the issue, it is usually worth spending a moment to explain the difference and suggest a site that might give them a good chance of buying something that will make you comfortable. But it isn't always easy to do so politely. I have a number of KOs that came to me as gifts, and it would have been rude to refuse them. I wouldn't buy them myself but I don't want to make someone feel bad for something they couldn't have known. If I think they will be buying more, I might mention the issue to help in the future though.

Thanks for approaching this issue is a thoughtful way,

Dave :)

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