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 Post subject: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:12 pm 
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I just got a very nice job and I want to expand my collection. I found this Teraminx by Andrew Cormier. I need some opinions on if this puzzle is worth the $2000 price tag. I remember this puzzle went on eBay awhile back and went very very high in price. I do want this puzzle but I want to know (as a collector) how many of these are out there and how rare this puzzle is.
http://www.bedardpuzzles.com/index.php?puzzle/30

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:16 pm 
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Shua wrote:
I just got a very nice job and I want to expand my collection. I found this Teraminx by Andrew Cormier. I need some opinions on if this puzzle is worth the $2000 price tag. I remember this puzzle went on eBay awhile back and went very very high in price. I do want this puzzle but I want to know (as a collector) how many of these are out there and how rare this puzzle is.
http://www.bedardpuzzles.com/index.php?puzzle/30


Look at the $2,000 price tag again. Yeah, it's just a little rare. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:26 pm 
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But how many have been made? 1? 2? 5? 10?

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:28 pm 
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Shua wrote:
But how many have been made? 1? 2? 5? 10?


I don't remember exactly, but less then 10. I think it was 8. I'd try just PMing Drew about it. He'd know better then anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:31 pm 
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Awesome. Thats the first thing I will buy with my first check.

*edit*
I think I will get a glass case to display it with my other puzzles.

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Last edited by Shua on Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:47 pm 
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The large price on this puzzle is not because it is rare (although of that you can be fairly assured), but because of the large amount of work to design and build it.

Aside from the excellent job of CADing this puzzzle, Drewseph not only developed new casting methods to make such building such a puzzle practical in any reasonable amount of time. Then there is just the large amount of work to actually make all the pieces, assemble and sticker it. I have not played with one, but from all accounts (and pictures, and videos) the workmanship is top notch.

So is it worth it? Absolutely in my view. I don't have $2000 in my puzzle fund right now but if I did this puzzle would be in my collection.

Dave :)

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:32 pm 
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Is it worth $2000?

Yes.

I had the opportunity to solve one of the Teraminxes, and I was impressed at how well it functions. With over 500 cast parts there is a lot of room for error, even if the parts are well made, and in this case, the entire puzzle was tight (no rattling) and smooth turning. Layer alignment took a little getting used to, and after a couple of hours my hands were getting tired, but this is more a factor of the time it took to solve (8-10 hrs or so) than any problems with the puzzle itself.


You will be one of the very few people that own one, or will ever own one. Puzzles like this push the limit far enough that very few people will even attempt to build one, and building several Teraminxes with this high quality is quite an achievement.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:06 pm 
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Easily worth $2000 if you see only 3 people have paid for it wich means only 4 people own one so far (#hidden and Drew himself). If I had $2000 I would buy one in a heartbeat!

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:00 pm 
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I got to play with one at the competition in Westchester a few months ago, and I have to say, it's worth the $2000. Yes, it's a heavy price to pay for a puzzle, but taking craftsmanship into account, it would more then pay for itself just being in your collection alone...at least in my opinion.

If I could throw $2000 around and not worry about it, the Teraminx would be at the top of my to-get list.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:00 pm 
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there are currently 4 Teraminxes out there

1 went to the Ebay Winner, One to Geert. The other 2 went to Germany.

Believe it or not, I myself do not even have a copy for myself yet. however that will hopefully change in the upcoming months

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:03 pm 
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Drewseph wrote:
there are currently 4 Teraminxes out there

1 went to the Ebay Winner, One to Geert. The other 2 went to Germany.

Believe it or not, I myself do not even have a copy for myself yet. however that will hopefully change in the upcoming months


While you are here I would like to know how long it takes you to finish one.
If you don't mind?

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:08 pm 
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I spent all of August and September casting parts for the Teraminxes. and I'm not done yet. basically once I get a purchase, I go ahead and cast the final 240 pieces. assemble, clean, and sticker. that takes about 5 days

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:14 pm 
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Drewseph wrote:
I spent all of August and September casting parts for the Teraminxes. and I'm not done yet. basically once I get a purchase, I go ahead and cast the final 240 pieces. assemble, clean, and sticker. that takes about 5 days


Is it safe to assume that this puzzle will never be mass produced?

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:24 pm 
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I can't promise that, the Chinese have been stealing a lot lately. If this was one of the casualties I'd be VERY upset!

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:49 pm 
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Yeah Mefferts just put out a big thing on this. Do you have a patent?

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:02 pm 
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I should do that, shouldn't I. but I have no idea how to do it. plus I don't have alot of money to do so. I'll see what i can do though

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:23 pm 
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Please get one.
http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/howtopat.htm
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/ii ... PatentCost
I wouldnt mind paying a little extra if it went toward getting this patented as long as you don't plan on selling this to a company that will mass produce it.

reeech I'm trying to help & am willing to help pay for the patent. Sorry if thats being demanding.

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Last edited by Shua on Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:25 pm 
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Shua wrote:
Please get one.
http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/howtopat.htm
I wouldnt mind paying a little extra if it went toward getting this patented as long as you don't plan on selling this to a company that will mass produce it.



You're quite demanding aren't you?

Telling what he should and shouldn't do?

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:31 pm 
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Drewseph wrote:
I should do that, shouldn't I. but I have no idea how to do it. plus I don't have alot of money to do so. I'll see what i can do though

Maybe. See this thread. In summary: Patents are not cheap, not easy, take time and don't always stop an infringer. If you don't think you will profit more than the cost of obtaining *and enforcing* the patent, it is hard to argue it is worth getting one.

Given a high end (i.e. limited market) item like a teraminx, I would think a patent might not make sense. If you are not mass producing them you will never make enough profit to justify the costs (price will be too high, market too small, profit too small). If you are mass producing it you have to worry about if you will even break even on the production itself, before you add in another $10k or so in patent fees (over the life of the patent) and then legal fees if (and as we now know, *when*, if your puzzle shows any sign of being profitable) someone infringes.

So I would put forth that you either go big and pay for protection (if you think you have something that can make big money) or go small and rely on your puzzle not being worth copying.

Puzzle pirates (copiers, infringers, copycats, etc.) may not be ethical but they are not idiots. They are going to focus their efforts where they see a chance to make money. So to answer the question of whether or not to pursue a patent you have to ask the question: Is my puzzle worth ripping off, and will a patent stop someone if it is? This worth is not judged by the interest of our fervent band of puzzle enthusiasts on TwistyPuzzles (we love it) but by what it would cost them to make it and the market for such a puzzle given those costs. Mr. Verdes probably has the best information on the market for higher end puzzles (lots of pieces, high cost of production, and more limited appeal). I can hope there is a market, but that doesn't make a market.

Dave :)

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:05 am 
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IMO a chinese Teraminx would be so nice (Giga FIRST!)! they could sell for $100. then everyone could get one.
It wouldnt take away the value of the originals. good thing is that you drew wouldnt have to build any more of these satanic monsters. and building time would go towards other projects.

basically I think rareness of puzzles is only desireable if you are a BIG ego. sure thing you have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on them. but too bad. honest!

this is still said in the greatest repect to all builders and collectors out there, from me, thank you for all your work! you probably just do this for youself anyway.
but when/if I someday make up some cool puzzle, then I'm gonna make sure everyone that wants one, can get one..

but unless you are filthy rich, then I pity you if you collect puzzles for anything but their visual apeal or new challenge or new mech. in my book dont buy a puzzle and expect it to keep its rareness

and last,

dont listen to me! build, solve and collect as you wish.
all I can say is that the chinese market isnt gonna be any easier to stop than by a few angry comments on some discussion board. and if it doenst stop, then I wont cry a tear

cant wait for the faceturning octa, axis cube and so on..

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:35 am 
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Shua, have you any idea how much it costs to patent something ! In the UK it's upwards of 18,000 pounds! I'm sure Drew doesn't want to throw away his money like that!

Chinese versions of these monolithic dodecahedron's would be nice, but it'd take away the the hand cast and custom feel of the puzzle, advantages are that Drew would not have to work himself to the bone on these projects and he could focus on bringing the world ever amazing puzzles.

If they were ever mass produced, I'd probably end up buying one.


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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:00 pm 
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If given the choice between a Chinese knockoff or a real one, without taking money into account, I would go with a real one. But, when you take money into account, I would have to get the Chinese one. I have the utmost respect for you, Drew, and your puzzles, but money is harder to acquire then the puzzles you use it for.

That being said, I am in no way suggesting that this puzzle be knocked-off without your permission. That would be devastating.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:14 pm 
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If the Teraminx got ripped off I would indeed be devastated. but only if it used the exact mech design I adapted. if it was a completely new mech, than I can't argue. but perhaps I can sell it to a willing market?

Doubleyou: you need to know when to keep opinions for yourself, as this entire section is about collecting. if you're too naive to understand the value of collection, then don't comment on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:49 pm 
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Doubleyou, I read your post last night and have thought a great deal about it. And all I can think to say is: grow up and think before you post.
Collectors of anything collect for the items value and rarity. Some things are collected because they look nice. EGO has nothing to do with it. I've had my Chi Gung ball for around 10-15 years. If I had a big EGO as you say, everyone would have known about it ages ago. It's only been these past few months that I've ever shown it. If Drew has a big EGO from CREATING some amazing puzzles, let him. He deserves it.
Does Georges have a big Ego? John Rausch? Pantazi? (well, that's another story) Klara? Carter? Dodd? Katsmom? And many others I have not listed. * I don't think any of us do. We have opinions on puzzles, we know what we like and collect them. Do we collect because at some point they might be worth more money than we paid for them? I doubt it. It's a joy to do so. Do we all have deep pockets (filthy rich to use your words)? I'm not, and I would guess that Klara and Pantazis aren't either (we're all in the same field). I would hazzard to guess that none of us are in the Bill Gates tax bracket.
This post while related to collecting has nothing to do with collecting. It's simply your way of saying you won't spend money on puzzles and hope that Drew's baby gets massproduced for a price you can afford. Believe me, it won't be US$100. (There are rumors going around about this and the retail price is much higher so you probably still won't get one)


Opinions are like this Image. We all have them, it's just how wisely we use them that makes the difference.

*appologies to all the great collectors out there, But you are perfect examples of what I'm trying to say.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:23 pm 
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Honestly sir I have a very small ego and no I'm not filthy rich. I am an 18 year old that still lives with his parent. I have admired the Teraminx sence the first time I saw it. I have no expences (because I still live at home) so when I found out that the Teraminx was for sale I just wanted it. I do care about how rare it is because I am a collecter and that is an important part of almost any collection.
"""It wouldnt take away the value of the originals. good thing is that you drew wouldnt have to build any more of these satanic monsters. and building time would go towards other projects."""
Thats not even cool.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:45 pm 
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What's up with the "Satanic monsters" comment?!? It's an amazing puzzle, but I'm sure there were better terms you could have chosen for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:28 am 
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Doubleyou, keep your ridiculous opinions to yourself. I would LOVE to see a teraminx mass produced, I really would. But legally and in collaboration with Drew, not by criminals. It's unbelievable that you're actually are saying that you want to see people steal from Drew.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:58 pm 
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DLitwin wrote:
The large price on this puzzle is not because it is rare (although of that you can be fairly assured), but because of the large amount of work to design and build it.


No, but the large pricetag does *ensure* rarity. Not that many people want one, very much fewer can afford one at that price.

Re: the rest of the thread -- I'm not 100% confident that a patent would be possible, or at least enforceable. AIUI Drew's dodecahedrons are essentially adaptations of the V-mech to the 12-sided shape, which means that the prior art is the previous megaminx patents and Verdes' patent. Whether the mech differs enough to patent separately is really something for the patent lawyers. These days almost anything is patentable and the real test is in the courts, which means that by the time you get any use out of it you're spending even more.

Just to set your mind at ease though: there's just NFW anybody's going to make a knockoff teraminx or petaminx before the knockoff gigaminx becomes a commercial success. Which I doubt it will, if it's ever made, at least in the current climate. If there is one, though, I'd follow Meffert's new "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" strategy, since realistically speaking you're just not going to beat 'em. Now less so than in the Pyraminx/Megaminx's heyday in the eighties, and Meffert didn't even win that battle *really* decisively.


Last edited by JasperJ on Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:59 pm 
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JasperJ wrote:
DLitwin wrote:
The large price on this puzzle is not because it is rare (although of that you can be fairly assured), but because of the large amount of work to design and build it.


No, but the large pricetag does *ensure* rarity. Not that many people want one, very much fewer can afford one at that price.



What do you mean NO?

Drew has already gone into detail the amount of work that goes into making this puzzles. The amount of unique pieces and the amount of pieces he has to cast costs a lot. Plus to get the masters done - he had to get those made too.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:16 pm 
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reeeech wrote:
JasperJ wrote:
DLitwin wrote:
The large price on this puzzle is not because it is rare (although of that you can be fairly assured), but because of the large amount of work to design and build it.


No, but the large pricetag does *ensure* rarity. Not that many people want one, very much fewer can afford one at that price.


What do you mean NO?


As in "no, you're right, it's not because it is rare". You know, standard conversational stratagems.


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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:56 am 
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wow I did sound like I hated some of you personally didnt I?
I dont. not the smallest little bit.
I love you all for what you are.
reading my own post again, I understand you. to be honest I just wanted to be the one that wrote all that nobody else would. I dont think anyone should steal anything.

try to think as a newcomer, one who doesnt know anything and doesnt know any collector yet. or knows what its really about. you want puzzles. you want more puzzles. but you dont want to spend like thousands of dollars on them. you dont care how rare they are. you dont care how much time the creator spent on the innovation.
this is the irony. he is the biggest ego. but he doesnt know.

the satanic monster is somethign I called the Teraminx duo to its needed work. you didnt catch that?

I never meant you (any of you) was a big ego. maybe "ego" was a wrong word to use.
look, collection puzzles is nothing you do to ensure world peace, would you agree?
its something you do entirely for youself.

to finish I want to apologize once again to anyone who felt offended. I can honestly say that I think we feel the same way about collection. I dont know why I wanted to be all rebellish

and reminder to myself. NO MORE IRONY, or QUICK COMMENTS BEFORE THINKING

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:40 pm 
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"he is the biggest ego. but he doesnt know."
I really want to know if your trying to say that Drew has a big "ego" for making these pieces of art.

"I can honestly say that I think we feel the same way about collection."
I can honestly dissagree with that statement

"look, collection puzzles is nothing you do to ensure world peace, would you agree?
its something you do entirely for youself."
So the word you are looking for is selfish. So in your opinion anything that I do that is for me and isn't ensuring world peace is selfish?

"the satanic monster is somethign I called the Teraminx duo to its needed work. you didnt catch that?"
Bad wording. + Duo?

Last note. Please cap the first letter of your sentences. That is really annoying, but it might just be you.


PS You can't be an Ego.


**edit**
DU
If English isn't your first language then I am sorry for being harsh. If your native language is Japaniese or Arabic you might be able to give me a few pointers sometime =D
If English is your first language then you can just ignore this edit.

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Last edited by Shua on Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:20 pm 
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Shua wrote:
"he is the biggest ego. but he doesnt know."
I really want to know if your trying to say that Drew has a big "ego" for making these pieces of art.

"I can honestly say that I think we feel the same way about collection."
I can honestly dissagree with that statement

"look, collection puzzles is nothing you do to ensure world peace, would you agree?
its something you do entirely for youself."
So the word you are looking for is selfish. So in your opinion anything that I do that is for me and isn't ensuring world peace is selfish?

Let's give some lattitude for the language barrier. There are many different levels of English knowledge on the forum, and so it is probably best to assume a misunderstanding than an insult.
"Selfish" and "ego" can have negative connotations but are not necessarily incorrect in this context. My love of puzzles (other than the puzzles I build for others) *is* selfish, or self centered in that it is an activity I do soley to make myself happy. I don't find that to be wrong, and pointing it out doesn't have to be an insult. In English this can be an insult to imply someone is concerned with only themselves to the detriment of others, but that may be lost to a non-native speaker.
Shua wrote:
"the satanic monster is somethign I called the Teraminx duo to its needed work. you didnt catch that?"
Bad wording. + Duo?
"Duo to" probably was supposed to be "Due to", as in "Due to its needed work". So the implication seems to be it is a hellish task to build such a monster. Come on guys, lighten up. Monster puzzle, monster truck, etc. This isn't rocket science to figure out what is meant here if you stop assuming the worst.
Shua wrote:
Last note. Please cap the first letter of your sentences. That is really annoying, but it might just be you.
PS You can't be an Ego.
A very reasonable request, although the rest isn't a polite way to help someone with a foreign language.

You know English better than Doubleyou does. For all I know you may even know their native language better than they do. Many on the forum with English as their second language write better than others for whom English is their native language (Georges, of course, has us all beat hands down on languages so we could all learn a thing or two).

So let's all be nice and focus on puzzles instead of misundertandings :)

Dave

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Last edited by DLitwin on Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:09 pm 
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I'm glad for the apology, Thanks. But sometimes if your unsure of the meaning of what you're trying to say, you might not want to say it.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:49 am 
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thanks for the understanding. english is my second language. I come from Denmark.

I DONT think anybody is too selfish. and creating puzzles for us to buy is more than I could ever ask for! I am so grateful for that guys! I dont wish for anybody to steal your ideas and copying your work for profit. This is what I mean we all agree on!

I wish for these pirate companies would come up with their own puzzles and produce for us.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:18 pm 
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Doubleyou wrote:
thanks for the understanding. english is my second language. I come from Denmark.

I DONT think anybody is too selfish. and creating puzzles for us to buy is more than I could ever ask for! I am so grateful for that guys! I dont wish for anybody to steal your ideas and copying your work for profit. This is what I mean we all agree on!

I wish for these pirate companies would come up with their own puzzles and produce for us.


K man sorry for the harsh-ness.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:01 pm 
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2000 is definitly the right price for it atm, however take into account that in a few years its price might lower, or it will never be made again, therefore you could loose or win, but for 2000, i havte buying puzzles for more than 20.. imagine one for 2k... especially if ur only gona use it a few times and get bored.. but you can always sell it for cheaper or something :)

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:24 pm 
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Neix wrote:
2000 is definitly the right price for it atm, however take into account that in a few years its price might lower, or it will never be made again, therefore you could loose or win, but for 2000, i havte buying puzzles for more than 20.. imagine one for 2k... especially if ur only gona use it a few times and get bored.. but you can always sell it for cheaper or something :)



I'm happy with the price.
Btw You and I have about the same Siggy. Mine says Cubes! in Arabic.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:50 pm 
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Neix wrote:
2000 is definitly the right price for it atm, however take into account that in a few years its price might lower, or it will never be made again, therefore you could loose or win, but for 2000, i havte buying puzzles for more than 20.. imagine one for 2k... especially if ur only gona use it a few times and get bored.. but you can always sell it for cheaper or something :)

I think with puzzles like this, you're not buying it necessarily just to play with it. This is a collector's item, no doubt about it. Even if it were to be mass produced, or even hijacked by the chinese manufacturers, this puzzle right now is hand-made, build by the inventor. That can never be taken away, therefore the value cannot be taken away.


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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:52 pm 
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I got fired today. No buy D:

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:14 pm 
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Holy crap! so sorry to hear.

Didn't you just get the job? mind if I asked what it was you did? ASo sorry, but its hard times! even I got laid off!

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:20 pm 
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Ah that sucks, you get fired cause of economy and stuff?

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:41 pm 
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Here is the thing. I am no jock. I didn't do sports. I did chess and music. So I'm not a strong guy. The job I was hired into was Extremely labor intensive. I am not strong enough to do the job safely. Thats the plain of it. I'm back to joining the army. I'm nearly fluent in Arabic & the Army wants my nuts :D I will be fine, I still live at home. I just need to drop about 25 lbs.
Not that hard, I've done it before.

Drew are you the one that makes the Pro-Minx? I still want that one.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:54 am 
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GL, even though I'm not in fovor of joining anything army related. I'll get started again on mailing prominxes next week after I finish up a possible job lead. we'll see

-Drew

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:40 am 
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Although I don't support our current war, I think being part of the army (any countries army that is) is a very admirable and courageous choice. You should bug drew for a military discount :P lol

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:32 am 
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Scott Bedard wrote:
Although I don't support our current war, I think being part of the army (any countries army that is) is a very admirable and courageous choice. You should bug drew for a military discount :P lol


I don't support the war either but I am driven by two things. Pride in my country & $$$. I have a very specific set of skills that has the army drooling over me & they promise in writing a top security clearance and a 40K sign on bonus for 4 years.

Back on topic though. I still really want this puzzle. I hope some day down the road (next 2-3 yrs) I can afford it. Untill then I'm just going to have to live without a "satanic monster" in my collection :D & I will tell you, I will never buy a china-teraminx no matter the price.

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 Post subject: Re: Teraminx?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:34 pm 
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Drewseph wrote:
even I got laid off!


So thats why we havn't seen an elite skewb yet :(

anyways sorry to hear about the bad luck,i can't afford one either, but man i sure think it would be worth it :D


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