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 Post subject: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:29 pm 
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On a regular basis people ask how to tell the difference between a Grooved and a Spindle Domino. Of course, Jin's photo at http://chrono.org/puzzlepics/2dominos.jpg is the only thing you'll need. But I'd like to point out that there is actually a third type, namely the so-called Russian Domino. It has a completely different mechanism, and it's easily identifiable by the layout of the dots. Here are some images of all three to tell the difference. Of course, the Russian Domino also has indented pips.
Yes, I am aware that there are more Dominoes, namely the Dominoes for the blind, and the 'mini' Dominoes. But these are of course easily recognisable.

Image

There is already some excellent info on the Russian Domino (See here and here), but I made some additional images of its interior. Notice the 'block' that prevents the middle layer from moving independently, like in the East Sheen 4x4x4.

Image

Finally, here's a group photo of my (black and white) Domino collection:

Image

Thomas

p.s. Yes, I see that I messed up the black side of the Russian Domino. :-)

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Last edited by Thomas on Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:59 pm 
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two version russian domino
Attachment:
2 VERSION DOMINO.jpg
2 VERSION DOMINO.jpg [ 38.1 KiB | Viewed 6756 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:03 pm 
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Frank wrote:
two version russian domino


Noooooo!!!! :shock:

Thanks anyway. :cry:

Thomas

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:09 pm 
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Handy. Just to let you know though, on the middle picture (Spindle black side), it reads "right to left" rather than "left to right" as it should.


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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:05 pm 
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Actually, it's not all that simple with the Russian Domino. Basically, that happens because the puzzle can be assembled differently from the same parts. I have two, and they are different. On one of them the numbers go from right to left on both white and black sides, while the other is like yours. If you think about it, and mentally (or physically) place the cubies in the irregular one go from to left to right instead, then you get exactly the same layout as yours and my other one. The difference in Frank's Domino is more substantial though, as the corner piece is made differently. BTW, the "Block" inside is on the white side in my Domino.

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Last edited by Aleksey on Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:08 am 
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Now this is some interesting topic with cool informations that I have downloaded for further reference.
Thank you Thomas.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:56 am 
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Fantastic topic for the puzzle collecting thread. Any definitive proof as to what kind of mechanism the red/white dominos used? I was thinking they were groove type but I'm not 100% sure. They are a bit smaller than those dominos.

I absolutely hate the grooved mechanism, by the way. It really is utter trash in my opinion. The split spindle version is significantly better while the Russian solid spindle type is probably the best overall but not by much. As I've mentioned before, my 3x3x4 is essentially a hand made built-up of a Russian type mechanism before I knew what the mechanism looked like.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:28 am 
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We should get this in the twistypuzzles articles! Great post.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:48 am 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
Fantastic topic for the puzzle collecting thread. Any definitive proof as to what kind of mechanism the red/white dominos used? I was thinking they were groove type but I'm not 100% sure. They are a bit smaller than those dominos.


If I was a little more confident as to how to disassemble my domino I would, but here are some photos that give an indication of size.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:13 am 
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Thomas, this is a great thread. Thank you for sharing all this information.
The responses also made it very informative for everyone.

:)


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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:41 am 
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This is great, Now I can work out which kind I have. But that leaves me with another question. Were any of them prodced more than the others? i.e. which is most common if you can use that word.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:56 am 
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Thanks for all the replies and comments. I'm glad my post was appreciated. @Matt, thanks, I've fixed the text in the image.

Too bad there are different versions of the Russian Domino. Now my collection of Dominoes feels less complete.

kastellorizo wrote:
Thomas, this is a great thread. Thank you for sharing all this information.


I figured, since I recently found a Russian Domino, I thought it was safe to share info on how to detect the Russian version. Little did I know that I'm now still looking for another. :-)

About the mini Dominoes, I'm pretty sure it has a groove mechanism. Mr. Twisty once broke one and he mentioned a groove.

Does anybody know how many different mini Dominoes there are? As far as I know there is the 'regular' red/white Domino, a red/white Domino with a Christmas theme and a red/white one with Superman and Wonderwoman. And if I'm not mistaken I do remember once seeing the 'regular' mini Domini, in black and white. But I may be wrong. And there is a Domino with letters in Georges Helm's collection.

And how many types of Dominoes for the blind exist?

Thomas

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Last edited by Thomas on Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:07 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:18 am 
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I think I have the groove one, and I want the spinndel one.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:09 am 
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I just noticed that the Russian domino in the first post in not solved! The black face has the 8 and 6 pip edge pieces swapped.

I think that in the solved state, this will mean that the pieces are mirrored in the same way as the other domino varieties. (but I don't know for sure)


Edit: I just realized that even though it is not solved, it is only a 3 cycle away which means that the pieces are indeed not mirrored. (4,6,8 pip edge pieces)

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:24 am 
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Uhh, I'm pretty sure you can solve it so it is mirrored or not mirrored.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:20 pm 
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joey wrote:
Uhh, I'm pretty sure you can solve it so it is mirrored or not mirrored.


I think I understand what you mean, but I consider a Domino solved, only when the dots of the 2 and 3 are parallel.

Image

Are you talking about a solved Domino where these are not parallel?

Thomas

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Last edited by Thomas on Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:01 pm 
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Excellent resource of information.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:08 pm 
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Thomas wrote:
Does anybody know how many different mini Dominoes there are? As far as I know there is the 'regular' red/white Domino, a red/white Domino with a Christmas theme and a red/white one with Superman and Wonderwoman. And if I'm not mistaken I do remember once seeing the 'regular' mini Domini, in black and white. But I may be wrong. And there is a Domino with letters in Georges Helm's collection.
And how many types of Dominoes for the blind exist?
Thomas


Some good questions.

As for Dominoes for the blind, I know of three subtle variations
Rounded pips on white (seen here, twistylist.com)
Rounded pips on black (seen here, twistypuzzles.com)
Defective blind domino (VERY rare, can't find the picture)

As for mini dominoes, in the 'Wonderful Puzzer (sic) Re-invented' series, I know of no more than you listed
The mahjong (thanks katsmom) one (seen here, twistylist.com)
The christmas one (seen here, imageshack.us)
The Superman one (seen here, twistypuzzles.com)
The black one (seen here, part of rubik_fr's collection)

There is also a (polish?) domino described by Singmaster as "Black and white plastic with red and white stickers having gold spots." Anyone seen this one?

PS. Further confirmation that the red and white dominoes use the groove mechanism comes from Singmaster - "2 by 3 by 3 Pictures of Superman and Wonder Woman. Uses the earlier mechanism."


Last edited by Bounb on Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:02 pm 
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Here is a normal regular groove type Domino that was sold in Soviet Union.
ImageImage

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:04 am 
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Great box, Aleksey! Is there a sticker with a logo on top of the plastic case?

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:08 am 
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I just won a red and white mini-domino that has Majhong tiles on it.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:17 am 
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It was threads like this that got me interested in joining TwistyPuzzles!

Looks like I have the Groove version - it's a bit loose but works OK. When I first tried to solve it I was using a Spindle photo for reference and I thought for a short while mine had been assembled incorrectly.

Does any know why the white cubelets get discoloured? I mean if they use different plastic for the corners then why would that be?

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:56 pm 
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Here is my groove one :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBuiEg40UyU

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:23 am 
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MarkSS wrote:
It was threads like this that got me interested in joining TwistyPuzzles!

Looks like I have the Groove version - it's a bit loose but works OK. When I first tried to solve it I was using a Spindle photo for reference and I thought for a short while mine had been assembled incorrectly.

Does any know why the white cubelets get discoloured? I mean if they use different plastic for the corners then why would that be?


Well the domino puzzle was mainly produced in the early 80's, which means most that are exposed to the environment are pushing 30 years old. The plastic on my two dominos doesn't feel terribly sturdy, so it could be either discoloration due to the environment or some other factor like degradation of the plastic compound.

Just like book paper eventually yellows before the acid makes the paper brittle, maybe a similar process is going on with the white plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:51 pm 
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I hope I didn't revive this topic for nothing. I was thinking if someone who writes those scripts to solve puzzles online could write a script that given the position of cubies and exact direction of dots in that position would tell if the Domino is a groove version or spindle (or uncertain, that is). As the Domino are usually sold in unsolved state, that would be very helpful to many. 8-) Myself included. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:28 pm 
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Aleksey wrote:
I hope I didn't revive this topic for nothing. I was thinking if someone who writes those scripts to solve puzzles online could write a script that given the position of cubies and exact direction of dots in that position would tell if the Domino is a groove version or spindle (or uncertain, that is). As the Domino are usually sold in unsolved state, that would be very helpful to many. 8-) Myself included. :oops:

Just always look for a 7 or a 2. You can tell from that. :D


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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:43 pm 
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Aleksey,

As ejisfun already mentioned, if you look closely at the non-symmetrical pieces of the groove and split spindle versions (the 2 and 7, either color) you will see that they are unique to the type of mechanism it is on. As long as you can see a 2 or 7 and the center piece of the domino (either color center piece), you can compare the picture to a known groove or split spindle domino and figure out what type it is as long as you match it to the number and color.

The Russian spindle dominos fortunately are easier to spot than the other two. That's a good thing since it appears that the dots can come in many variations.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:49 pm 
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I have a nice Domino Cube here, it's a "Groove Domino".

But the cube need some lube. :D

Can somebody explain me the best way to dissasemble the Groove Domino, I don't want to make a mistake. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:58 pm 
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LosBanditos wrote:
I have a nice Domino Cube here, it's a "Groove Domino".

But the cube need some lube. :D

Can somebody explain me the best way to dissasemble the Groove Domino, I don't want to make a mistake. :oops:

turn the slice a little, then turn one of the sides. or you can take off the center cap and unscrew it.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:12 pm 
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Do NOT disassemble a groove domino for the sake of lubing. Just do a half twist and spray a bit inside sparingly.

Better yet, don't lube it at all. There's a chance that whatever lube you use will eat some of the old plastic and your Domino will become worthless.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:05 pm 
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Thomas wrote:
On a regular basis people ask how to tell the difference between a Grooved and a Spindle Domino.
Image
Thomas
p.s. Yes, I see that I messed up the black side of the Russian Domino. :-)


Is not the first picture of the second row messed up also? (groove black)
Shoud it not read :
321
654
987 ?
With the 'nine' like a 'U' and not like a 'C'?

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:03 pm 
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Georges wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Is not the first picture of the second row messed up also?


Aaaarghhh! I guess you're right. :oops:

I'll update the pics when I have some time.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:02 pm 
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I forgot to say "many thanks" for the picture with their legends.
This has been very helpful for me.
Thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:55 am 
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Just stumbled across a new mini domino with black rather than red. Updated list

All known Dominoes
*

- Rubik's (Spindle)

- Rubik's (Groove)

(packaging variations - in clear 'tub', in blue box (English/Hungarian))

- For blind: Rounded pips on white (seen here, twistylist.com)
- For blind: Rounded pips on black (seen here, twistypuzzles.com)
- For blind: Defective blind domino (VERY rare, can't find the picture)

- Mini Dominoes ('Wonderful Puzzer (sic) Re-invented' series)
- The mahjong (thanks katsmom) one (seen here, twistylist.com)
- The christmas one (seen here, imageshack.us)
- The Superman one (seen here, twistypuzzles.com)
- The black mahjong one (seen here, part of rubik_fr's collection)

- Russian (or Ukranian) Domino (seen here, twistypuzzles.com]

- Alphabet Domino (Magic ABC) (seen here, twistypuzzles.com]

- The fabled "Singmaster" domino - "Black and white plastic with red and white stickers having gold spots." (Anyone seen this one?!)

*At least that I know of :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:33 am 
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After reading all these posts, I finally decided to clean mine. It's a spindal. Thankfully there was a "how to open the domino" link on the forum. Pictures of a very dirty pre-cleaning domino and core can be found here.

Here is a sample
Image

Image

would someone kindly post a picture of the inside of a groove domino? I've seen the Russian one, I want to know how the groove is different.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:56 am 
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katsmom wrote:
would someone kindly post a picture of the inside of a groove domino?


They're here: http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pkey=1320

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:45 am 
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I own a groove domino, and I found a pretty good way to clean the inside. Because of the weird old kind of plastic and no lubricant (Dave Litwin showed us all what this does to dominoes, although that one was a spindle), the plastic produces a lot of dust. After I first received it half a year ago, I immediately tried to find a way to open it up, and it was very dusty in there.
I took a peice of so-called Sillyputty, a non-sticking clay that can be used as an eraser, and I coold easily whipe every piece clean, even in very small holes. I also did this on my Rubik's Wolrd puzzle, which is made out of the same old kind of plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:52 am 
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I used this technique to lube my spindle domino (with CNC silicone in the red can), and it worked great. You just have to be patient and to it right:

1. Unscrew the halves of the domino
2. Wipe off all dust
3. Separate the parts in groups of corners and edges, placed so that no lube can reach the visible parts
4. Hold the can a foot away from the parts and spray in light coats, allowing each coat to try before adding a new one. Pretend like you are spray painting something.
5. Wipe off any excess lube
6. Reassemble

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:49 am 
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Found a yellow and black one on ebay... It says that is is a Hungarian one, but it is yellow. Any added rarity to that?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=120390423887


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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:21 pm 
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katsmom wrote:
would someone kindly post a picture of the inside of a groove domino?


Yes katsmom, my groove domino come from a none-smokefree home ;) and it was totally stiff.

Now it's lubed, but its a little bit too porose but well turning, ideal for speed-cubing :mrgreen:
I needed some superclue for the center screw, else I couldn't joining the two center parts together.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:59 am 
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Thanks, that picture is very easy for me to understand.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:08 pm 
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Sorry for the bump, but after looking at the groove mechanism I came to the conclusion that mine differs a bit, because at mine the black 5 can come off instead of the white one, I find this very strange, anyone have an explanation?

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:36 pm 
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When I took mine apart and cleaned it, the black center was the one that came out, not the white. It is the same otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:36 am 
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I made it my mission over the past three months to own all types of domino. I have managed to get the; Spindle Domino, Blind Mans, Russian Domino (with the tips that are inverted, and the Groove Domino.

It was a VERY expensive mission, however I am very happy with them and they look great together on my shelf.

P.S I will update this post when I get my camera back from the repairs shop.


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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:53 am 
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The Russian domino, I'm jealous! Please don't tell me you got it off eBay! I'll start to cry.

I may have to go Twist someone's arm to get one.

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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Dominoes
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:05 am 
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No actually I didn't get it off Ebay. I am lucky enough to have a father who travels alot, and he happened to be going to hungary. I was aware of all of the rare puzzles that could be found over there, so I asked him to go to a flea market if he had the time. When he went to the market he called me and said that he could see three puzzles that matched the description that I gave him. He told me about the puzzle and at the time I was looking for a Blind Mans Domino, and the Russian one. I knew from picture that I had seen that the Russian Domino went more of a yellow colour on the white side than the other so I asked him to buy the one with the darkest white side.

When he returned boy was I happy.. however my wallet was not :)


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 Post subject: Re: How to tell the difference between all 3 types of Domino
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:20 pm 
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I have a Russian domino with a white seven / black seven that are different ways up.
It looks most similar to the one Frank showed (but he did not show the white face).

I have looked at the Russian Domino pictures on this forum and have not seen this noted as a possible configuration before. Only that the Russian Domino's '7''s could be either way up.

Attachment:
My Russian Domino.jpg
My Russian Domino.jpg [ 683.24 KiB | Viewed 494 times ]


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