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 Post subject: Pure silicone spray lubricant
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 9:11 pm
Location: Dubuque, IA area
I've been looking for Pure/100% silicone spray lubricant for some time now and haven't had much luck. I know about the 3M product but can't seem to find any hardware or autoparts stores that stock it. :(

The other day I went to a city with a very large hardware store. I found a storebrand product called "Ace Pure Silicone Spray Lubricant". When I read the back of the can, it said that it contained aromatic hydrocarbons and heptane. This sounds like types of oil to me. Can anyone tell me if the 3M product contains these same chemicals? Perhaps these are only propellents which quickly evaporate and cause no harm to the plastics.

I know that Prestone also sells a pure silicone spray lubricant that uses heptane as a propellent, but I haven't been able to find that one either.

At the same store, I was able to find 90% pure silicone grease in the plumbing department which specifically states that it doesn't contain any oil or hydrocarbons, and that it won't degrade plastics or elastomers. I don't know what the other 10% is, but as long as it's not oil and is rated for plastics, it should be good. I purchased the grease, but would still like to get a spray lubricant for the puzzles that I don't want to disassemble.

Thanks,
Doug M.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:12 pm 
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Why do some people have something against oil? I use 100% pure silicone oil and am very happy with it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:29 pm 
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Location: Webster, NY
There is the dry type (PN08897) and the wet type (PN08877) aerosol silicone sprays that 3M makes. I am not sure which you mean. The dry type, according to the MSDS sheet contains propane, heptane, and acetone besides the poly(dimethylsiloxane) I would be a little concerned about the acetone depending on the plastic it is applied to. The wet type the MSDS says contains no petroleum oils but it does contain a hydrotreated petroleum distillate as a solvent (which I would guess may affect plastics depending on which ones)and isobutane.

Heptane is usually not much of a concern around plastics as it evaporates quickly. Aromatic hydrocarbons could mean toluene, xylene etc, which, depending on the plastic, can dissolve and swell them until they evaporate.

By the way, oils just mean low volatility liquids with a relatively low polarity (not water or water like) and fairly large molecular weight. Hydrocarbons and silicone liquids are referred to as oils as wells as fluorocarbon liquids such as Dupont Krytox used in vacuum pumps.

Hope this helps. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada
I have a spray (Jigg-Aloo) that has too much other stuff, it ws hard on the stickers of a studio cube.

I bought some liquid silcon lube at the condom shop after someone suggested it on the forum. It works very well.

I have some of the Rubiks.com stuff. It works well too. Comes for SC Johnson, smells like floorwax :?

The stuff I find fastest and durable so far is skateboard bearing lube. Powell Speed Cream. Ist very good and it lasts.

what is the grease used for? It might be worth testing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 9:11 pm
Location: Dubuque, IA area
The grease was in the plumbing department. I think it is used for watertight seals on gaskets and plastic piping.

I think it should be good for puzzles when you can take them apart to lubricate. You would want to use it sparingly because there isn't much in a container and the thick viscosity could make the puzzle turn harder if you use too much. Also, it shouldn't be as messy as the spray when using the puzzle since it is solid from the start and won't drip. There are some puzzles, however, where I would like the spray since I would rather not risk breaking them during disassembly.

Doug.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:44 pm
Location: New Philadelphia, Ohio USA
I buy the Prestone Silicone Lubricant at Wal Mart. Check in the automotive department.

-Phil


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:29 pm
Location: Shreveport, LA
Where do you guys find these at? I was at one of the local Wal-Marts last night looking for some, I couldn't find any or anyone that was knowledgeable. In fact I couldn't even find WD40, though I know not to use it. I figured they'd at least be close to each other.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 8:31 pm
Location: Arvada, CO
Go to an Ace hardware store and get the CRC brand, it's far superior to Prestone.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 9:11 pm
Location: Dubuque, IA area
CRC brand?

I went to a very big Ace Hardware which generally carries a large selection of everything, and the only pure/100% silicone spray lubricant that they had was the Ace store brand.

Doug.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:28 pm 
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Location: Arvada, CO
I think it's the same stuff. They may have just changed the package design but it was in a red, black and white can that says Heavy Duty Silicone.


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 Post subject: Re: Pure silicone spray lubricant
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 11:17 am
Doug M. wrote:
I've been looking for Pure/100% silicone spray lubricant for some time now and haven't had much luck. I know about the 3M product but can't seem to find any hardware or autoparts stores that stock it. :(


I called around until I found an auto parts store that carried it. Have you looked into ordering it online?

Doug M. wrote:
The other day I went to a city with a very large hardware store. I found a storebrand product called "Ace Pure Silicone Spray Lubricant". When I read the back of the can, it said that it contained aromatic hydrocarbons and heptane. This sounds like types of oil to me. Can anyone tell me if the 3M product contains these same chemicals?

Thanks,
Doug M.


The non-oil-based 3M silicone lubricant (in the black can) contains heptatane, isobutane, and poly(dimethylsiloxane). It contains no petroleum oils.

The petroleum oils can dissolve plastic pretty well, though less so once they are dry. However, the petroleum oil sprays are also toxic, so you might want to avoid them anyway.

Regards,

David J


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:46 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:25 pm
Location: Madrid-Spain
I use two types of silicon spray:

CFS

CRC

Not sure if they are sold out of spain.....

CFS is about 4 euro and CRC about 10(it is much more bigger)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:42 pm 
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Before learning about the warnings about WD-40 I used it on my 3x3 and keychain 3x3. From reading some other site, I knew that I should play with the cubes for about a half hour after spraying to prevent lock-up (didn't know what it meant at the time). I did that and it worked fine, though I'm looking for pure silicone lube now...

Glad my cubes still work!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:14 pm
Location: kingston, wa
hmm, this may sound stupid, but i havn't heard about the badness of wd40. i used it on my cube a while ago quite frequently. but havn't for over a year, but now its really nice, i used to leave it in the sun in my car and that would make it REALLY smooth for about half an hour, that was always nice


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:17 am 
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chavid wrote:
hmm, this may sound stupid, but i havn't heard about the badness of wd40. i used it on my cube a while ago quite frequently


Which type of cube?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:14 pm
Location: kingston, wa
just a regular 3x3x3


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:48 am 
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chavid wrote:
just a regular 3x3x3


Yeah, that's what I thought. But which type?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:15 pm 
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Location: kingston, wa
um, im not really sure actually, i think its the kind from rubiks.com, although i got it at a fred meyer. . .not much more i really know about it. . .sorry


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:06 am 
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chavid wrote:
um, im not really sure actually, i think its the kind from rubiks.com


Alright, thanks. That confirms what I thought, that these cubes are more "resistant" against petroleum (WD-40 is petroleum-based). People have always been warning "don't use WD-40, it'll destroy your cube". Same thing about "oil" (nonsense) and "petroleum". But I know a cuber who has really lovely cubes and I found out recently that his silicone spray does contain petroleum. Now I'm thinking these warnings may apply to the old cubes (and probably studio cubes) but for the new cubes, petroleum might actually help to make the plastic more soft/smooth. Also somebody here suggested to use silicone spray containing acetone for that reason on new cubes and only use pure silicone later to maintain the state. I'll test petroleum now, I have a silicone-spray that contains it and I'll give WD-40 a shot as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Pure silicone spray lubricant
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:09 am 
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Doug M. wrote:
I know that Prestone also sells a pure silicone spray lubricant


Prestone contains petroleum, too, btw:
http://www.emedco.com/emed2/resource/ms ... a&pf=bsypx


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:40 pm
Location: Marske-By-The-Sea, UK
i used some random silicone spray from Autosmart my dad got before, it said it was used to protect and make look better plastics and vinyl and also for lubricating hinges and joints 8-)

one spray into the cube lubed it fully


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 9:11 pm
Location: Dubuque, IA area
O.K. Here is what I ended up getting:
http://www.performancelubricant.dupont.com/dp_products_silicone.html#

My can is label slightly differently, but it goes by the same part # D00100101 so I'm sure it's the same. In addition to the silicone, it also contains Teflon. Otherwise, it sounds like it has the same petroleum products as the 3M stuff so I should be fairly safe using it on puzzles. Here is what it says in the fine print on the back of the can regarding petroleum contents:
"DANGER: EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE. Contains petroleum distillates (Heptane) and propane/isobutane propellants."

Perhaps "petroleum distillates" do not imply "petroleum oils". I have sent an email to DuPont asking specifically about its effect on plastics. I will post their response, if I get one.

Doug.

P.S.
I find it quite interesting that apparently the term "pure" does not mean that it only contains that ingredient. I especially think the text on the front of the DuPont can is interesting since it states in large letters "Pure Silicone Lubricant", and then in smaller letters it states "with Dupont Krytox PTFE". How can it be "pure" one thing, yet contain something else? The last time I checked PTFE was not the same thing as silicone.

By the way, it also states that it is "H-2 Food Grade Approved", yet it clearly states in bold letters "HARMFUL OR FATAL IF SWALLOWED." Apparently, lots of labeling contradictions here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:49 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:40 pm
Location: Marske-By-The-Sea, UK
maybe it means the silicone itself is pure?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 9:11 pm
Location: Dubuque, IA area
Pembo wrote:
maybe it means the silicone itself is pure?


Right. So if I buy chocolate milk, can they market it as pure milk? I think not! It is no longer pure milk once the chocolate is added.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:33 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:06 pm
Location: Portland, ME
From my experience, the destruction takes several years. I used to use vaseline on cubes back in the 1980's. Most of those cubes have survived, but a few spontaneously crumbled when I unboxed them years later.

Chris


StefanPochmann wrote:
chavid wrote:
um, im not really sure actually, i think its the kind from rubiks.com


Alright, thanks. That confirms what I thought, that these cubes are more "resistant" against petroleum (WD-40 is petroleum-based). People have always been warning "don't use WD-40, it'll destroy your cube". Same thing about "oil" (nonsense) and "petroleum". But I know a cuber who has really lovely cubes and I found out recently that his silicone spray does contain petroleum. Now I'm thinking these warnings may apply to the old cubes (and probably studio cubes) but for the new cubes, petroleum might actually help to make the plastic more soft/smooth. Also somebody here suggested to use silicone spray containing acetone for that reason on new cubes and only use pure silicone later to maintain the state. I'll test petroleum now, I have a silicone-spray that contains it and I'll give WD-40 a shot as well.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:05 am 
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Location: Portland, ME
R.E.T. wrote:
StefanPochmann, where do you buy silicone oil, I have never seen anything like that. I use CRC spray, and it is OK, but the fumes got me stoned once because I did'nt let it dry long enough.


I don't know about Stefan but I got this stuff called Shock Oil from a local hobby shop. Evidently it's used for R/C. (not Rubik's Cube-- remote control!) People use it to lubricate the servos for the flaps on remote control planes or something. It's 100% pure silicone oil, and there's no odor.

Here's a photo of the bottle. It was less than $4 USD.


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