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 Post subject: Dispute about mechanism of Lattice Cube (museums entry)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:03 pm 
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Location: Koblenz, Germany
Hi,
Lately I changed the entry of the Lattice Cube because it found its way into mass production.
Shortly afterwards an unnamed contributor submitted a change. (always good news)
He (or she) wants to change the mechanism from "Higher order Skewb (>= 4 layers)" to "Dino/Rainbow Cube".
I dismissed this contribution. (always bad news even for myself)

Today I found the same request again in the list of pending contributions.
I still think "Higher order Skewb (>= 4 layers)" is the right value, not because Lattice Cube is made from a Skewb but because it shares its axis system with the skewb (like the Dino Cube) and it has five layers (unlike the Dino Cube).
Sadly, the system of values for the mechanism is not perfect and (more sad) will never be. Compromises are inevitable.

Because I do not know the contributor I have to write this in public.
I hope I could made my reasoning clear for dismissing the change the first time. If the unknown contributor still wants to discuss this then please answer to me here or via PM.

I welcome other opinions on the subject in general as well.

Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: Dispute about mechanism of Lattice Cube (museums entry)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:21 pm 
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I think it would be a dino mechanism. Part of the mechanism is a dino cube, with the only new thing added being the ability to turn the tips. That is just my opinion.......

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 Post subject: Re: Dispute about mechanism of Lattice Cube (museums entry)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:45 pm 
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I assumed that the original hand made ones were made from modded Rainbow Cubes.


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 Post subject: Re: Dispute about mechanism of Lattice Cube (museums entry)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:01 pm 
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They were, in fact.


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 Post subject: Re: Dispute about mechanism of Lattice Cube (museums entry)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:03 pm 
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I suppose this won't help but this is my $.02. I Know those two are completely two different mechanism but know that higher order Skewbs will always be odd and higher order Dino cubes will always be even. To me they always look like they are family part of a family sort of.

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 Post subject: Re: Dispute about mechanism of Lattice Cube (museums entry)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:54 pm 
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It's based on a Dino Cube.
Therefore, it should be labeled as such in the museum.


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 Post subject: Re: Dispute about mechanism of Lattice Cube (museums entry)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:22 am 
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I think it's a master dino cube almost literally

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 Post subject: Re: Dispute about mechanism of Lattice Cube (museums entry)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:29 am 
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TheCubingKyle wrote:
I think it's a master dino cube almost literally


I completely agree given the internal mechanism.

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 Post subject: Re: Dispute about mechanism of Lattice Cube (museums entry)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:44 pm 
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Hrrm.
Thank you for the answers so far.
Crazy56U wrote:
It's based on a Dino Cube.
Therefore, it should be labeled as such in the museum.
I am afraid it is not that easy. Many 2x2x2s are based on 3x3x3s but there are still many puzzles with mechanism=2x2x2 in the museum and I do not want to change them to 3x3x3.
The Kilominx is built on a megaminx but the entry reads mechanism=Kilominx.
Darren Grewe wrote:
I suppose this won't help but this is my $.02. I Know those two are completely two different mechanism but know that higher order Skewbs will always be odd and higher order Dino cubes will always be even. To me they always look like they are family part of a family sort of.
You really consider a Master Skewb as odd?
Nontheless this posting gave me an idea. I will exchange "Higher order skewb" with "Higher order cornerturning hexahedron" which hopefully eases the misunderstandings.


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 Post subject: Re: Dispute about mechanism of Lattice Cube (museums entry)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:21 pm 
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Andreas Nortmann wrote:
Nontheless this posting gave me an idea. I will exchange "Higher order skewb" with "Higher order cornerturning hexahedron" which hopefully eases the misunderstandings.
I don't have a good answer... but I do have two comments:

(1) Most would use the term cube instead of hexahedron.
(2) Remember this post? There you stated:
Andreas Nortmann wrote:
1. I have a plea.
Even we theorists couldn't agree onto a definition of order.
You might have seen that I quitted using that term.
I ask you to do the same.
Has that stance changed? I use the term myself a fair bit but if used it feels like it needs to be defined.

As for hexahedron... technically a hexahedron is any polyhedron with six faces. Where as a cube is a regular hexahedron. So isn't cube more accurate? Granted when we say tetrahedron, octahedron, dodecahedron, or icosahedron we are typically referring to the regular version of each... so I think you are just wanting to be consistent. Come to think of it... why was the cube to only regular polyhedron to be given a unique name?

Carl

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Last edited by wwwmwww on Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dispute about mechanism of Lattice Cube (museums entry)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:49 pm 
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Andreas Nortmann wrote:
Darren Grewe wrote:
I suppose this won't help but this is my $.02. I Know those two are completely two different mechanism but know that higher order Skewbs will always be odd and higher order Dino cubes will always be even. To me they always look like they are family part of a family sort of.
You really consider a Master Skewb as odd?
Nontheless this posting gave me an idea. I will exchange "Higher order skewb" with "Higher order cornerturning hexahedron" which hopefully eases the misunderstandings.


Does anybody similarity between the skewb and the dino cube? I do.

Master Skewb

http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pkey=1353

Master Dino

http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pkey=1350

Skewb

http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pkey=621

Dino cube

http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pkey=605

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 Post subject: Re: Dispute about mechanism of Lattice Cube (museums entry)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:13 pm 
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Darren Grewe wrote:
Does anybody similarity between the skewb and the dino cube? I do.


It seems that Dino Cube is to Skewb as Kilominx is to Pentultimate. They are both corner-turning hexahedra, but if you were to take the lattice cube apart, you would see a mechanism very similar to the Dino Cube, not the Skewb.

Andreas Nortmann wrote:
I will exchange "Higher order skewb" with "Higher order cornerturning hexahedron" which hopefully eases the misunderstandings.


I agree with that.

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 Post subject: Re: Dispute about mechanism of Lattice Cube (museums entry)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:47 am 
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Andreas Nortmann wrote:
I will exchange "Higher order skewb" with "Higher order cornerturning hexahedron" which hopefully eases the misunderstandings.
As long as it isn't labeled as a Skewb of any kind, I'll be happy.


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 Post subject: Re: Dispute about mechanism of Lattice Cube (museums entry)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:09 pm 
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Carl: Another good point.

Actually I wrote:
Higher-order cornerturning cube (layers >= 4)
I thought the paranthesis would make clear what is meant.
I just changed it to
Corner-turning cube (layers >= 4)


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