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 Post subject: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:19 am 
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There was an issue that V-Cube has copied DesignYourCube.com's
concept. They have also made cubes that
you may add custom images on each faces,
which was first done by DesignYourCube.
Not only the concept was copied by V-
Cube, but also the programming code and
the design of the "Create Your Cube" page
on V-Cubes website. This is a very unfair
business strategy, coming from a company
who chooses to file cases on other
companies who they assume, copied their
patents. They even call the V-Cube 8 to be
the largest cube in the world, which is
false marketing because other companies
have gone over the 8x8. They stated before that they're aiming to sell their cubes to regular consumers and not SPEEDCUBERS, which gives them no reason
to destroy speedcubing companies, since
their aim is of another group of people. DYC said that they will have their official statement about this matter. Thank you. That's all.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:07 am 
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Is that process of adding custom images on faces of the cube in software patented or copyrighted?

If not what have V-Cubes done wrong...?

In principle, they could have copied the idea or arrived at it separately but whatever the actual case, I don't see how they have actually broken any law.


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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:45 am 
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Jumbo wrote:
Is that process of adding custom images on faces of the cube in software patented or copyrighted?

If not what have V-Cubes done wrong...?

In principle, they could have copied the idea or arrived at it separately but whatever the actual case, I don't see how they have actually broken any law.

Copying programming code is illegal, so if they did that, they did break at least one law. Besides that, TS does have a point!

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:50 pm 
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As a french guy myself, I confirm designyourcube (DYC) is a french company who has recently soft launched its website (4th january 2014, not 2010).
This guy has worked hard to finalise a very good product of a very high quality printing process.
After several months of studies, tests and investment, they first offer 2x2x2 cubes 50mm, but are at the moment on the study of pillowed 3x3x3, but NOT the Vcubes due to bad inter layer distorsion and too big holes leading the picture to be alterated.
A very few of our friends in this community were aware of that for some months now. Iwas at the last Ducth Cube Day presenting some protos they gave to me so to show the progress of they work.
Finaly, DYC never made arrangement with Vcubes for various reasons and the cubes they list now are not Vcubes ones.
If you have a single look at DYC and Vcubes websites you will notice they are very similar but only one is working perfectly well on designing the cubes and is the original one.
I'm very sad to see such behavior of some persons because they didn't manage to get an arrangement.
Only the french company is the genuine one who has started this activity after long period of very professional work.
I have ordered one 2x2x2 and the result is simply perfect with last setup.
I hope this will restore the truth.


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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:32 pm 
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Jumbo wrote:
Is that process of adding custom images on faces of the cube in software patented or copyrighted?
Pretty much everything you create is copyrighted automatically. Images you make, code (including markup, script, and CSS) are all copyrighted automatically. You have to explicitly put something in the public domain for it not to be.

Jumbo wrote:
If not what have V-Cubes done wrong...?
No idea. Clearly some accusations have been made. Without lots of background information and evidence presented its hard to come to any conclusions. I don't think the hostility towards any company or person is particularly constructive or appropriate for this forum. What are we going to discuss? Even if V-Cubes were was a lying, cheating, thieving, evil bastard, what is there for us to discuss?

I think folks should put down their pitchforks and torches and wait for more information.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:44 pm 
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all the process of creation is pointed here. Ok that's not new but such event must be listed so to be fighted.

And it concerns our passion, twisty puzzles.
Everyone must be aware that some persons are not trusty at all.

That's my opinion.
JLM


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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:18 pm 
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HeX wrote:
... coming from a company who chooses to file cases on other companies who they assume, copied their
patents.
They even call the V-Cube 8 to be the largest cube in the world, which is false marketing because other companies have gone over the 8x8.
They stated before that they're aiming to sell their cubes to regular consumers and not SPEEDCUBERS, which gives them no reason to destroy speedcubing companies, since their aim is of another group of people.
DYC said that they will have their official statement about this matter. Thank you. That's all.
I do not want to comment a possible conflict between DYC and V-Cubes because I do not have any information beyond the speculations I'm reading here.
(I recollect, though, to have seen years ago a US site where I could customize a 3x3x3 using my own pictures.)
I hope that we can get a direct statement from DYC, so we do not need to speculate any further, if their is any accusation against V-Cubes.

I want to point out again, that the TP KO policy sees the following as facts:

    Any big Cubes >5x5x5 <12x12x12 other those from the Verdes company are Knockoffs. So, the wording above "who they assume, copied their patents" does not reflect our point of view.

    The V-Cube 8 is certainly not the largest cube in the world because Oskar has got a Guinness Book World Record for his 17x17x17. The V-8 is the largest mass-produced Cube that is legal in most countries of the world, though.

    I have no information that V-Cubes tries to "destroy speedcubing companies". V-Cubes may very well fight, though, to defend their own rights.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:29 pm 
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Do I misunderstand something?
V-cubes has stolen the printer as well? Or they created their own?

We all know that you have showed us the first printed cubes at DCD. And it was really interesting to hear the story behind it. Also it was nice to see how excited where you about it. And now I'm so disappointed.
So bad to hear things like this!
Attachment:
IMG_0973_2.jpg
IMG_0973_2.jpg [ 2.81 MiB | Viewed 2431 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:38 pm 
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Olivér Nagy wrote:
Do I misunderstand something?
V-cubes has stolen the printer as well? ...
Please, refrain from accusations ("stolen") without proof, even if they are hidden in the form of a question.

Any accusations should come from DYC and not from TP members.

Facts or official quotes from DYC are welcome!

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:44 pm 
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not sure if they have found the exact same techno but it seems yes looking at the few pictures, and for sure the website has been copied. :evil: :evil: :evil:
Stolen is the word used for "copied from a hard and long study by someone else"

sorry, you're right Konrad, let's wait for DYC official info.


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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:31 pm 
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The two products looks so identical that my first assumption was that they were the same product. My first thought was that V-Cubes and DYC had a partnership where V-Cubes provided the puzzles and DYC did the printing. Now it appears that my assumption was false.


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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:44 pm 
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DYC appeared on 4th of January and on 30th of January the whole idea is already being offered at V-Cubes?
I do not believe it's possible to copy and arrange everything in such a short time, V-Cubes has never been that quick!

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:42 am 
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All the site members that are accusing V-CUBE do not know the real situation, the law and are telling terrible lies. Official statement will come in a later stage. Right now you can log i in our website and try our "Create Your Cube" application and buy your perfectly customized cube or purchase one of our ready designs from our gallery.


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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:52 am 
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Konrad wrote:
Please, refrain from accusations ("stolen") without proof, even if they are hidden in the form of a question.

You are right!
Sorry for that!

Timur wrote:
DYC appeared on 4th of January and on 30th of January the whole idea is already being offered at V-Cubes?
I do not believe it's possible to copy and arrange everything in such a short time, V-Cubes has never been that quick!

If you read back, you will see, that DYC and V-cubes tried to do it in partnership, but as it looks it failed at some part. (This is also what we heard from JLM at DCD2013, when he showed us these kind of cubes).
So I assume it is more than half years (probably much more than that) work behind the screen.
To "came up with exactly the same" production method. it is more than enough. And to "copy" a website code, is take only a matter of days for a talented person.

rubik_fr wrote:
let's wait for DYC official info.

Please, can you contact them, to ask such info from them?

I think we all would like to know is the V version is legit or not. Probably many of us would like to have such a puzzle. But we do not want to support anyone who offers a product what has legit issues.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:55 am 
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I believe someone from the DesignYourCube site is a member of this forum and may choose to share if they wish, either publicly or privately with the forum staff (myself or the Moderators).

This site appreciates facts and firsthand information, and in any dispute information from the perspective of all sides. Opinion has its place, but supporting information and should accompany it or we devolve into the sort of place many of us would rather not frequent. Criticism, positive or negative, has its place as well but also carries with it the burden of justification.

To the extent there is a conflict between these companies, both are in the EU so I trust that any potential legal proceedings have the weight of a trusted legal system with an established rule of law. So unlike many KO issues we can hope that this can be resolved in a manner generally considered fair.

As with any potential conflict in our hobby I hope parties can work things out for the good of our community.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:18 pm 
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Official DYC statement is now online: http://www.designyourcube.com/create-design-your-cube-statement.
Thanks for all of you who have already supported DYC.


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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:30 pm 
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FYI, you can't patent or otherwise protect just an "idea", only a particular invention, method, process, brand, trademark, creative work, or design, and only if it is novel, specific, and not obvious. Adding custom pictures to puzzles is an old, generic idea that is not novel, not new, not specific, and it is also pretty damn obvious. The idea has been going on since the magic folding cube, or even jigsaw puzzles, way before Rubik's Cube was invented, and long after any copyright would have lasted, even if a copyright could be applied to the idea, which it can't, because copyright only applies to near-exact copies of the specific pictures, which this idea doesn't. So, this looks like somebody crying theft when they had nothing of theirs to take in the first place. They may want to check with a patent lawyer, and one that will tell them the reality, not just take their side to get some business. Unless they can show they copied the code exactly from source, they don't stand a chance.

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Last edited by KelvinS on Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:37 pm 
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Perhaps they should approach another cube manufacturer, such as Dayan. I for one would love to have a picture cube which also behaved as a speed cube.

As to them having something stolen, it appears that even though the idea of putting pictures on a cube is not new they may have stolen the method of printing on the cube which may or may not be patented.


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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:43 pm 
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Whatever happens in the future, I am glad they decided to involve lawyers and such, cause if this is all indeed true (would we ever find out the truth, that is another matter) then this needs to be sorted, and properly too.


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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:49 pm 
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I don't know about patent law, but V-cubes is making plain bogus claims. Not only did they say that the V-Cube 8 is the most complex rotational puzzle (petaminx?), but now on the "Create your Cube" page it says
Quote:
V-CUBE™ makes for the first time possible to personalize your cube at a level considered to be unattainable in the past.

Ok so first they take the DYC idea and then take credit for being there first?

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:53 pm 
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cuberboy13 wrote:
I don't know about patent law, but V-cubes is making plain bogus claims. Not only did they say that the V-Cube 8 is the most complex rotational puzzle (petaminx?), but now on the "Create your Cube" page it says
Quote:
V-CUBE™ makes for the first time possible to personalize your cube at a level considered to be unattainable in the past.

Ok so first they take the DYC idea and then take credit for being there first?

I must admit, that's a bit far-fetched, unless they let you imprint your DNA into the cube?

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:55 pm 
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cuberboy13 wrote:
I don't know about patent law, but V-cubes is making plain bogus claims. Not only did they say that the V-Cube 8 is the most complex rotational puzzle (petaminx?), but now on the "Create your Cube" page it says
Quote:
V-CUBE™ makes for the first time possible to personalize your cube at a level considered to be unattainable in the past.

Ok so first they take the DYC idea and then take credit for being there first?

I'm certainly not surprised they would make such marketing claims. They are there to draw attention. Of course, we all know they're baloney... :lol:
KelvinS wrote:
I must admit, that's a bit far-fetched, unless they let you imprint your DNA into the cube?

If so, I wouldn't do that. I don't want my children in the future to be able to play with me... :shock: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:05 pm 
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benpuzzles wrote:
KelvinS wrote:
I must admit, that's a bit far-fetched, unless they let you imprint your DNA into the cube?

If so, I wouldn't do that. I don't want my children in the future to be able to play with me... :shock: :lol:
Well if they scramble it they would only be playing with themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:06 pm 
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WOW!!! I'm not sure what to think here. I'm not sure their idea was patentable either but our KO policy isn't just about patents. His statement:
Quote:
Creation whether it is legally patented or not deserves to be respected.
Does hit quite close to our KO policy. Our main intent is to respect designers and their creations. That what prompted the KO policy in the first place. I can't speak for the moderators and as I've said before I'm glad I'm not in their shoes, but I am curious what stance they'll take on this subject. If this is going to the courts, and it sounds like it might be, maybe the thing to do is not take any stance and wait and see what the courts decide. Either way I must say I feel very sympathetic toward Julien Selz and his team. In hind sight, it sounds like he shouldn't have shared anything with V-Cubes until non-compete and non-disclosure agreements had been signed and in place. Trust me, I fully understand the desire to want to share, be open, and trusting of your fellow man. I do it everyday and I'm still doing it. And yes I know I can be burned. But I also don't have the full wight of a team that depends on me on my shoulders either... at least when it comes to my puzzle related endeavors.

Regardless of how this comes out... I'm saddened that it had to happen this way in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:11 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
WOW!!! I'm not sure what to think here. I'm not sure their idea was patentable either but our KO policy isn't just about patents. His statement:
Quote:
Creation whether it is legally patented or not deserves to be respected.
Does hit quite close to our KO policy. Our main intent is to respect designers and their creations.

What did they "create", exactly? If I copied Shakespeare, that doesn't mean I "created" it, or anything for that matter, except for a copy.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:15 pm 
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KelvinS wrote:
wwwmwww wrote:
WOW!!! I'm not sure what to think here. I'm not sure their idea was patentable either but our KO policy isn't just about patents. His statement:
Quote:
Creation whether it is legally patented or not deserves to be respected.
Does hit quite close to our KO policy. Our main intent is to respect designers and their creations.

What did they "create", exactly? If I copied Shakespeare, that doesn't mean I "created" it, or anything for that matter, except for a copy.


If I understand correctly they created a method to print directly onto the cubes, not using stickers to put the pictures on the cubes. If this is the case then Vcubes would be stealing their possibly patented printed method and or their intellectual property.


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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:16 pm 
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:evil:

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:19 pm 
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We have seen the DYC statement and probably we will get a statement from V-Cubes, too.

Fortunately, both parties are located in EU countries (as Dave has pointed out above) and the copyright law is probably not much different in the respective countries.

I think it is not necessary to go on here with harsh words and accusations ("stolen" is really a hard word to be used before an independent judge has looked into a possibly complex situation).

I have compared the two websites and in my opinion they look substantially different.
The pictures of the finished products, look quite similar, though.

The real issue is probably the printing process onto a white cube and the question, if the "idea" can be copyright protected.
Personally, I feel sad that the parties didn't come to an agreement, but I'll wait and see what the future and the judge will tell us.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:25 pm 
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This is nothing more than fair competition based on an old, generic idea. The sad part is that one party thinks they own it. Like somebody claiming they own the idea of drawing pictures on paper with a pencil.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:30 pm 
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KelvinS wrote:
This is nothing more than fair competition based on an old, generic idea. The sad part is that one party thinks they own it. Like somebody claiming they own the idea of drawing pictures on paper with a pencil.


Or the fact the one company thinks they own the specific color scheme on a 3x3 cube. :D


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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:34 pm 
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garathnor wrote:
KelvinS wrote:
This is nothing more than fair competition based on an old, generic idea. The sad part is that one party thinks they own it. Like somebody claiming they own the idea of drawing pictures on paper with a pencil.


Or the fact the one company thinks they own the specific color scheme on a 3x3 cube. :D

Well, that's actually fair to claim because the 6 colors are specific Pantone colors which are (together in combination) now widely recognized as a brand, while competitors could easily pick an infinite number of other color combinations.

PS. I hate that my new phone automatically "corrects" my English spelling of "colour" to the US spelling! Grrrr :evil:

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Last edited by KelvinS on Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:38 pm 
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I don't think their "idea" has to be copyrighted. It think that their method for printing directly onto a cube can be patented. As far as I can tell, it has not been done before. At least not in this same manner.


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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:46 pm 
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DYC wrote:
Creation whether it is legally patented or not deserves to be respected.
This sounds like DYC has not got a patent.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:47 pm 
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Volitar Prime wrote:
I don't think their "idea" has to be copyrighted. It think that their method for printing directly onto a cube can be patented. As far as I can tell, it has not been done before. At least not in this same manner.

Printing pictures directly onto plastic surfaces is also not a new invention or methodology. The process has been used since plastic was invented, and the DYC guy even says he bought the printer from somewhere else...

It sounds like he presented a good, but generic "business idea" to V-Cubes, and they liked the idea but thought "why should we pay him for this, he doesn't actually own it", so they just went ahead and did it without him (which is fair enough) and now the DYC guy is all bitter and twisted about it. I say, "Learn for next time, and move on! Otherwise, you might win a bit of sympathy by fighting this, but you'll lose a lot of time and money!"

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:58 am 
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KelvinS wrote:
Printing pictures directly onto plastic surfaces is also not a new invention or methodology. The process has been used since plastic was invented, and the DYC guy even says he bought the printer from somewhere else...
I'm a process engineer by profession and I can say there is always room for innovation. The product being offered appears higher quality then anything of this nature that I've seen before... at least with respect to puzzles. We don't know what modifications he may have made to the printer. The formulation of the ink could have been tinkered with. There could be some pre or post treatment being applied to the puzzle to aid with the printing. Even things like temperature and humidity may be factors during the printing itself. There are tons of parameters that can be played with in any process and certainly some of this stuff could be protected by patent or copyright. We simply don't have enough information to know what IP might have been shared or taken at this stage. But I certainly don't think its fair to state that Julien Selz didn't own any IP at this stage. It appears he didn't have it protected with a patent. But what it was worth? How much he shared with V-Cube? And rather V-Cubes is actually using any of his IP are all open questions. And at this stage I believe they are questions best left for the courts to deal with.

Just my 2 cents...
Carl

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:29 am 
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garathnor wrote:
Or the fact the one company thinks they own the specific color scheme on a 3x3 cube. :D

This sort of thing is not new. Did you know T-Mobile owns a particular Magenta?
http://sixrevisions.com/web_design/color-the-next-limited-resource/

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:41 am 
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Reading the statement from DYC | Julien Selz, I think this is NOT how business should be done.
(but it is happening this way: bigger companies tend to let smaller ones wait for a reply regarding cooperation and such. I have a similar experience in other devices, and I'm also waiting for the designer of this to respond)

There's a big why (maybe not that big for Verdes): WHY did they not want to sell their official cubes to DYC?
Try to answer that, and you may find some strategic here that is used more commonly in business (the larger company taking all info from the smaller but not granting a share).

And if Julien's idea was somewhat generic, they could -no: should- have told him that. Because that's the way you should treat people. And then Julien would have earlier decided to step out of a single contact.

Just my considerations.

Maybe a good idea for Shapeways to launch such printing also -if it's common technology- on their custom cubes and other products? (printing per part instead of per face :wink: )

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:21 am 
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To our disappointment we have recently heard rumors that V-CUBES and our new concept, “Create Your Cube” has misappropriated the work done by the “designyourcube.com” team. The concept of customizing a cube is quite a popular one and has been around for quite some time.

V-CUBE has been working together with the “designyourcube.com” team for over a year on a possible collaboration between the two where, under our brand, we would provide our cubes and they would customize them on our behalf. The work was focused on business planning and project management in order to find the optimum business model between the two firms. Apart from a few cube samples, no printing methodology details or programming code were never shared.


Despite our continuous efforts to find common ground, with regret we received at the mid of January a message by the “designyourcube.com” team saying that they are dropping all negotiations, that they will move forward on their own, that they will use other cubes rather than our own and that they have already launched their website. We checked their website with disbelief as after over a year of collaboration we would not expect such business ethics from their side. What we found was that they had not only launched their website but they were even using our 3D cube models on it to promote and sell their cubes.


We decided that it would be a mistake not capitalising on the time and effort we have spent over the last year and not launching the product on our website which we moved on to do independently.

We operate in a free market and we welcome any lawful competition as it motivates us to improve, therefore we are not looking to defame the work and effort done by the “designyourcube.com” team. However we reserve all our legal rights regarding our registered patents and designs.



We hope the above clarifies the situation.



The V-CUBE Team


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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:32 am 
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A very solid response from V-cubes I think.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:41 am 
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Yup.. both claiming the same thing basically: we are right.

I think the law needs to intervene to make a true assessment. :?


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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:45 am 
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AndyChilly wrote:
A very solid response from V-cubes I think.

Well, now both sides of the story are largely shown.

I'm however still puzzled how V-cubes can launch their application in short time after the negotiations were stopped.

Pity that 1 & 1 (cube & print) does not make one stronger solution here.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:50 am 
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Quote:
Yup.. both claiming the same thing basically: we are right.


I agree, it's easy to say "The concept of customizing a cube is quite a popular one and has been around for quite some time." but V-Cubes do not indicate they had planned to commercialize this idea before DesignYourCube started talking to them. Once talks with DesignYourCube broke down they proceeded very quickly, which implies they had been working on a technology for a while. I guess DesignYourCube would have done better to negotiate the supply of cubes without discussing their business idea for printing on the cubes with Verdes.

The thing we still do not know is whose print quality will be best. Often it is quality and not who got to market first that win business and product success.

Let the best design company with the best print process win if no copyright or patent law was infringed.


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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:29 pm 
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Yeah, I had suspected some exaggeration from the first couple of posts accusing V-Cubes. I could tell right from the start that there would've had to be some prior collaboration between the two companies, and not one blatantly copying the other. V-Cubes had sent me some of their printed cubes, which are quite nice, but I'm glad I held off on a video review until we heard an official statement from both sides. Even if there is unethical things going on here, all we have one companies word against another. So I think the most fair thing I could do now is to get some cubes from DesignYourCube.com and do an honest comparison with V-Cubes.


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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:50 pm 
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Splinter wrote:
I'm however still puzzled how V-cubes can launch their application in short time after the negotiations were stopped.

As I said, the method of printing pictures directly onto plastic is not new, the printers/tools to do this already exist. So all they had to do is buy a printer, or out-source the work to another company that already has one. It would take you or I no more than 4 days to identify suitable suppliers and get a few quotes... And basic websites can be made even quicker. The whole operation could be set up in about 2 weeks, or 4 weeks max.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:34 pm 
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4 years ago Uwe showed me a Jings Pyramix that he had printed. At that time it was pretty cool, but highly impractical on the curved surfaces. I've seen one or two since then that he's had done and the technology keeps getting better and better. Guess what? This is in China, not the EU.

As has been stated before this technology has been around for a while.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:31 am 
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katsmom wrote:
As has been stated before this technology has been around for a while.
They use it to print faces on complex shaped Barbie doll heads, and have done for many years now. All made in China.

And 25 years ago I used it to print coloured company logos on shaped medical devices during my Summer job. And that was just a small company which had their own colour image printer!

Thus, I put this entire matter down to an inexperienced entrepreneur acting by idealism and pride, rather than good business sense and experience. Hopefully a hard lesson to succeed with his next venture... Learn and move on!

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:45 pm 
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KelvinS wrote:
Thus, I put this entire matter down to an inexperienced entrepreneur acting by idealism and pride, rather than good business sense and experience.
I don't necessarily disagree but I really don't think there is enough information here for us to be able to jump to conclusions. My take from a good business sense point of view is things like non-disclosure and non-compete agreements should have been discussed very early in this process and it doesn't sound like they were.
katsmom wrote:
As has been stated before this technology has been around for a while.
Agreed. The pen is another printing tool which has been around for a very long time. Yet here is a story about a pen which was able to get a patent in 1965, long after the pen had been in use for decades.
katsmom wrote:
I've seen one or two since then that he's had done and the technology keeps getting better and better.
Exactly... each of those steps up in quality is a potential inovation and potentially something that could be patentable. There is all sorts or room here for IP to exist. Did designyourcube own any real IP? Did it manage to find its way to Verdes' camp? Maybe even without direct knowledge of Verdes? I don't know. I don't think any of us know. So I'd be inclined to encourage us to stop jumping to conclusions.

Just my 2 cents...
Carl

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:21 pm 
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Fair enough, but what *isn't* in doubt is that V-cubes believed they could do this without any IP or partnership with DYC. And they did, very quickly.

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:02 pm 
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KelvinS wrote:
Fair enough, but what *isn't* in doubt is that V-cubes believed they could do this without any IP or partnership with DYC.
I believe Verdes believed that.
KelvinS wrote:
And they did, very quickly.
Yes. They moved very quickly. I'll agree with that. I don't know if they moved that quickly without any of DYC's IP. Verdes himself may not know that. I don't know all the conversations that took place between the DYC team and V-Cubes. It certainly appears the two were working together for a while without any sort of contracts in place which is sad as I believe there are several ways this whole situation could have been avoided. But if you have a team working on a project like this for as long as this was in the works I think it would be odd that some IP wasn't generated in the process. Who owned it, what was agreed to, what the understandings were, etc... should have been in writing for a dealing of this nature. It seems like the lack of these writen details and potential poor- or miss- communication between the parties has resulted in this less then desirable situation.

I don't want to say either party is 100% correct or 100% wrong. Heck even if I did have more information I certainly wouldn't be qualified to make that determination. It will be interesting to watch this and see where it goes but I think all we can do is trust the legal system at this stage.

A question I've asked myself is would V-Cubes even be offering this service now had it not been for this involvement with DYC? It feels like the answer is no. But is that even legally relevant? Again I honestly don't know.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: designyourcube.com
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:01 am 
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Wasn't sure if I should post this here as the general discussion is fairly heated. But I won the DYC competition and had my entry printed. I am very happy with the result!

Also got given a magnetic mini 2x2.

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