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 Post subject: A note on the types of turning.Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:17 pm

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:56 pm
Location: Chicago,
Hello Everybody,

As I was browsing the museum today, I noticed that the description for the 48 cube says it is a double deep-cut puzzle. I know that the Little Chop is considerd a "deep-cut" puzzle but I never thought a 2x2 was deep cut. If I am looking at these puzzles correctly, these are the 6 different kinds of turning:

Helicopter Cube: Edge Turning
Little Chop: Deep-cut Edge Turning
Dino Cube: Vertex Turning
Skewb: Deep-cut Vertex Turning
2x2: Face Turning
3x3: Deep-cut Face Turning

Is This correct? Are the 2x2 and 3x3 switched? What is the exact defenition of a Deep-cut puzzle?

Thanks,
RubiksMaster614

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 Post subject: Re: A note on the types of turning.Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:32 pm

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:35 am
I think the term a lot of people like to use is origin cut. Deep cut doesn't always mean cut at the exact center of the solid.
Little chop, skewb, pentultimate, and 2x2 are all examples of origin cut puzzles. 3x3 is not.

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 Post subject: Re: A note on the types of turning.Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:45 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
RubiksMaster614 wrote:
[...]
2x2: Face Turning
3x3: Deep-cut Face Turning

Is This correct? Are the 2x2 and 3x3 switched? What is the exact defenition of a Deep-cut puzzle?

First off, there is a lot of contention about an exact definition of what deep cut means.

I think everyone agrees that if all cutting planes intersect at a single point the puzzle is deep-cut. The contention arises when you start looking at puzzles with a lot of deep-cut properties but don't have cutting plains intersecting at a point.

But... everyone agrees that the 2x2x2 is deep-cut and the 3x3x3 is not. For the 2x2x2 all cutting planes intersect at a point, the planes all divide the puzzle into two isomorphic groups, etc.

For what it's worth, I've been using the term "grip" to generically describe any turning point on a puzzle. For hybrid puzzles that are, for example, face + vertex turning, having a generic term that describes things to turn is nice. For example, a Dino 3x3x3 has 8 vertex grips and 6 face grips. When you're analyzing pieces in really complex puzzles you generally look at the grips that will move each piece. Looking for symmetries in the grips allows you to learn a lot more about the piece type. This also allows you to say that the corners of a Master Pentultimate behave like "deep-cut" pieces even though the overall puzzle is not deep-cut.

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 Post subject: Re: A note on the types of turning.Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:04 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri

http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11001

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: A note on the types of turning.Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:13 pm

Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:48 am
Location: In Front Of My Teraminx (saying WTF?)
Many say deep cut is a cut that passes through the origin, but I believe it's a puzzle with no external piece directly screweable to a fixed core. For example, the Starminx's centers can't be screwed to the core because the centers of the faces move when an adjacent face is turned. When the piece that serves as center of the rotation of the puzzle can't be screwed in to the core, for me, this is deep cut.

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 Post subject: Re: A note on the types of turning.Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:35 pm

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:48 pm
RubixFreakGreg wrote:
When the piece that serves as center of the rotation of the puzzle can't be screwed in to the core, for me, this is deep cut.

For me to , but there is other puzzles that can be considered deep cut turning, even if the center are not (like on the starminx ...). I think there is a little bit of common sense I would say if the cuts are "deep" in the puzzle you can say it's deep cut turning puzzle. But there it's depends on how the cuts are "deep" in the puzzle. Like a higher order puzzle (of a none deep cut turning puzzle), won't be considered a deep cut puzzle... Like that's what I think, and sorry if it's a little bit confusing.

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 Post subject: Re: A note on the types of turning.Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:12 am

Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:03 am
Location: Koblenz, Germany
As you have recognized by now there are many ways to define a specific term. The definition with "origin-cut" was held in mind when the description for the 48-cube was written.
wwwmwww wrote:
http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11001
I suggest to focus on the part after Carl's bump:
viewtopic.php?p=181860#p181860

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 Post subject: Re: A note on the types of turning.Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 10:44 pm

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:46 pm
Location: Littleton CO
RubixFreakGreg wrote:
Many say deep cut is a cut that passes through the origin, but I believe it's a puzzle with no external piece directly screweable to a fixed core. For example, the Starminx's centers can't be screwed to the core because the centers of the faces move when an adjacent face is turned. When the piece that serves as center of the rotation of the puzzle can't be screwed in to the core, for me, this is deep cut.

I disagree. I think the skewb is deep cut. And its "center" is srewed to the core.

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