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 Post subject: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:11 pm 
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Some years ago I asked you what are the hardest puzzles to solve, now we are more than 1700 members and there are a lot of new challenges ...

again the question.... Âżwhat are the hardest puzles (to solve) for you?

only mass produced rotational puzzles, please

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:15 pm 
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Tony Fisher's Golden Cube. :D

I've only ever scrambled (and solved :wink:) it once, I never had the courage to do it again. :lol:

Alex

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:16 pm 
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I'm gonna have to say tthe crazy 4x4II.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:18 pm 
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brainball
crazy 4x4x4 II

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:55 pm 
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Ghost cube.


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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:41 pm 
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the hardest puzzles for me don't take much thought, just a lot of time, and those are the v-cube 7 and the Rubik's 360 (because of the time and frustration of trying to move the pieces around)

-UC

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:43 pm 
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Golden Cube.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:46 pm 
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Floppy cube


morph egg (th 3x3 mod one)

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:50 pm 
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Life.




golden cube is the hardest twistypuzzle for me though

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:52 pm 
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ulmboy556 wrote:
Life.
juanan wrote:
only mass produced rotational puzzles, please

:lol:

Alex

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:01 pm 
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Teraminx for time, golden cube for thought.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:23 pm 
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4x4x4. i honestly cant solve the parity error case for the life of me :( i get sick of messing up the alg, resolving, messing it up, resolving. arrgh lol.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:32 pm 
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1x1x1. Topic end.

:lol: To be serious, I'd have to say something like the Hexaminx or Pyramid Scheme. Not that I'd know, I suck at solving shape-shifting puzzles. :P

EDIT: Oh, only mass produced puzzles. Hmm... Probably Golden Cube, but I wouldn't know.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:38 pm 
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0x0x0. End of story.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:40 pm 
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Triple fused void petaminx

or golden cube


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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:51 pm 
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suminorudder wrote:
4x4x4. i honestly cant solve the parity error case for the life of me :( i get sick of messing up the alg, resolving, messing it up, resolving. arrgh lol.


Try r U2 x r U2 r U2 r' U2 l U2 r' U2 r U2 r' U2 r'. It sounds like a long algorithm, but it's very easy with all of the "U2"s. (By "r" and "l", I mean the outer face (R), and the inner face (r).

:)

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:51 pm 
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golden cube


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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:11 pm 
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I don't find the golden cube that hard, just time consuming.
The FTO would have to be the hardest for me now, because I haven't taken the time to learn to solve it fully yet :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:29 pm 
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Namegoeswhere wrote:
The FTO would have to be the hardest for me now, because I haven't taken the time to learn to solve it fully yet :lol:


Yeah I would have to say the same thing, too.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:35 pm 
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Square-1 (or 4-layer super square-1). I don't find any of the other mass produced puzzles hard at all. The hardest I have yet solved is probably Gelatinbrain's 1.1.19 which is almost like a crazy 5x5x5. That or Gelatinbrain's 1.1.39 which required a lot of work to figure out.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:47 pm 
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Did anyone ever solve a maze cube, without checking the solution first? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:53 pm 
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Kelvin Stott wrote:
Did anyone ever solve a maze cube, without checking the solution first? :shock:

Doubt it. Maze cubes aren't really "solved" in the twisty puzzle sense of the word. You solve to a pattern where piece recognition is unnecessarily difficult. If you are given a maze cube already scrambled and you don't know the solved state, your best bet is to solve the maze pattern via a computer and then solve to that pattern.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:57 pm 
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helicopter cube...(technically it is mass produced now)

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:07 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
Kelvin Stott wrote:
Did anyone ever solve a maze cube, without checking the solution first? :shock:

Doubt it. Maze cubes aren't really "solved" in the twisty puzzle sense of the word. You solve to a pattern where piece recognition is unnecessarily difficult. If you are given a maze cube already scrambled and you don't know the solved state, your best bet is to solve the maze pattern via a computer and then solve to that pattern.

But doesn't that just confirm it is the most difficult puzzle, in fact too difficult to solve by any human?

PS. I know that less than 10 people have managed to solve my Qubami so far, but I guess that is technically not yet mass produced (although the moulds are ready).

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:08 pm 
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APJ wrote:
ulmboy556 wrote:
Life.
juanan wrote:
only mass produced rotational puzzles, please

:lol:

Alex


Its mass produced, people are born daily. and I'm pretty sure I can rotate :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:16 pm 
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Square-1 or Super Square-1. I hate parity. :evil:
I don't see why the Golden Cube is that hard. I don't really put much thought while solving it, but it takes me little while to understand how to rotate the corners in the end. I solved it many times with no problems.
It's probably because I use a method that isn't like the Skewb Ultimate. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:47 pm 
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Mine would have to be the mini mickey mouse head. Simply because it is a beast to turn. It took me weeks to get it back to the right positions.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:04 pm 
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Kelvin Stott wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
Kelvin Stott wrote:
Did anyone ever solve a maze cube, without checking the solution first? :shock:

Doubt it. Maze cubes aren't really "solved" in the twisty puzzle sense of the word. You solve to a pattern where piece recognition is unnecessarily difficult. If you are given a maze cube already scrambled and you don't know the solved state, your best bet is to solve the maze pattern via a computer and then solve to that pattern.

But doesn't that just confirm it is the most difficult puzzle, in fact too difficult to solve by any human?

Hmm, this is getting philosophical but my answer is "no" but I'll discuss my reasoning. I think a twisty puzzle is "hard" when the underlying puzzle is "hard". You can use a sticker pattern to make the puzzle harder but there is a "limit" in that super-stickers are the "hardest" you can get for a puzzle. Any pattern that makes pieces harder to recognize doesn't increase difficulty, it just increases recognition time.

Take for the Dogic for example (using Gelatinbrain's numbering).

The easiest Dogic is the 12-color 2.2.8b because the color scheme as defined by the 3-color center pieces is unique and because the group of 5 triangle tips of the same color can be in any permutation (5! reduction of states).

The next hardest Dogic is the 10-color 2.2.8 because there isn't a unique color scheme and because the 5 triangle tips can only be in one permutation.

The 2.2.8c is the same difficulty as the 2.2.8 for the same reasons.

The 2.2.8d is the "hardest" Dogic because the orientation of the 3-color center pieces matters and the tips can't be in any permutation.

Any crazy stickering of a Dogic that makes piece recognition harder isn't increasing the difficulty of the puzzle, it is just slowing down the solve.


Or to use a standard 3x3x3 cube as an example. If you took all the stickers off of a regular cube and you scratched the heck out of the plastic using something sharp, you could solve the cube back to the original scratched state just like it was a Super 3x3x3. This didn't make the puzzle "harder", it just meant you had to spend hours examining scratches to figure out what fit together.

Or yet another example. Imagine you had a semi-transparent Rubik's cube much like Rubik's Ice (2x2x2) cube. You could solve this cube by shining a very bright light through it and only looking at the colored shadow it produces. This wouldn't be "harder" than solving a regular 3x3x3 but would most likely be very difficult without extensive practice.

By this definition, a maze cube is a super 3x3x3 and not harder.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:57 am 
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Women Now thats impossible to solve.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:15 am 
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Only three words:

Astrolabacus!

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PS. Tedious puzzles shouldn't even be mentioned in this list.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:57 am 
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My votes go to the bandaged cube and the maze cube.

Too bad this is just for mass-produced puzzles as many of the most difficult puzzles designed and made are too difficult for mass-production.


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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:00 am 
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I have a sodoku cube that's really hard. it's not like the normal setup

normal:
123
456
789

Mine:
378
162
954
completely random on each face, I haven't solved it yet. :( it's cheap quality so I'll probably destroy it to make more room on my shelf :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:04 am 
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ENCuber wrote:
I have a sodoku cube that's really hard. it's not like the normal setup

normal:
123
456
789

Mine:
378
162
954
completely random on each face, I haven't solved it yet. :( it's cheap quality so I'll probably destroy it to make more room on my shelf :lol:

I have that. I don't like it. :( I couldn't be bothered figuring it out (I just got the corners).

Alex

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:59 am 
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The hardest one for me to figure out was just the Rubik's Cube. After I knew that one, the rest of em just came to me, with the same logic.

Exceeeeeeept...
the square-1(family), they don't have the same logic. this is the only one I struggle with.
If you check how many times my name pops up in the gelatinbrain score rankings, you might understand why I don't find any mass produced puzzle difficult anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:40 am 
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Super Square-1.


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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:58 am 
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Golden cube.

You can apply a twist on the original Rubik's cube to create the Mirror blocks puzzle. It makes you work with shape. Mr Fisher, that genius, came up with the idea of putting the same logic to a puzzle that is a higher order of another puzzle but with a few alterations and a "parity" error. Genius!


If it had stickers for each face though, it would be a lot simpler, in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:07 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
Kelvin Stott wrote:
Did anyone ever solve a maze cube, without checking the solution first? :shock:

Doubt it. Maze cubes aren't really "solved" in the twisty puzzle sense of the word. You solve to a pattern where piece recognition is unnecessarily difficult. If you are given a maze cube already scrambled and you don't know the solved state, your best bet is to solve the maze pattern via a computer and then solve to that pattern.


Yes, I did.
If you care about the direction of possible connections for centers/corners/edges, you'll find, that there are a couple of boundaries which allow just a couple of possible permutations.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:08 pm 
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My personal favourite:

Toru

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:24 pm 
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APJ wrote:
Tony Fisher's Golden Cube. :D

I've only ever scrambled (and solved :wink:) it once, I never had the courage to do it again. :lol:

Alex


I've solved it a couple of times, not too hard. I'm just never going to solve it again though as Tony's signature's fading!

Super square-1 for me. Not actually hard, but when I get parity in the middle two slices, it often locks up, meaning I forgot where I got to and have to restart. Or I just completely forget the algorithm (It's soo long!) :D

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:35 pm 
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Yeah i have to agree with that. Super Square-1 is pretty tough. i may have solved it completely once... the rest of the times i took it apart 3/4 the way through...

i do not own a golden cube, cuz shelf space is limited on my puzzle collection, until i upgrade from my two-tier to a five-tier shelf. anyway, ive seen a few golden cubes @ competitions, and without colored stickers or anything, i would have to say it isnt one of the most challenging, but it does involve alot of logic. in my opinion, timewise, the Teraminx has to be one of the hardest, and Logically, the golden cube or super square-1... (or a 0x0x0 seeing how its not physically possible to even make one??)

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:38 pm 
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RedRoost80 wrote:
Yeah i have to agree with that. Super Square-1 is pretty tough. i may have solved it completely once... the rest of the times i took it apart 3/4 the way through...

i do not own a golden cube, cuz shelf space is limited on my puzzle collection, until i upgrade from my two-tier to a five-tier shelf. anyway, ive seen a few golden cubes @ competitions, and without colored stickers or anything, i would have to say it isnt one of the most challenging, but it does involve alot of logic. in my opinion, timewise, the Teraminx has to be one of the hardest, and Logically, the golden cube or super square-1... (or a 0x0x0 seeing how its not physically possible to even make one??)


The Teraminx isn't hard. The only hard puzzle in that series is the Megaminx, and if your pushing it, Gigaminx. Once you know how to solve the megaminx/gigaminx, the teraminx, petaminx, examinx, zettaminx, yottaminx all aren't hard to solve, just take a very very very long time.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:54 pm 
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I found the Rotascope to be quite difficult. I imagine the 24 (half chop) is quite difficult.

"Difficult" is difficult to measure. Once you know how to solve a puzzle, is it difficult anymore? On the Golden Cube, yes. But this is a recognition challenge, not a solution challenge.

Patterns (Tartan cube, Qubami, Saturn) can make a puzzle difficult but that is a "what is the solution" problem not a "get to the solution" problem. Once one figures out where they are going, getting there is not more of a challenge than the underlying puzzle presents. So in a sense there are two separate puzzles at play and one may be simple while the other is not.

To me, difficulty is measured in the time taken to devise a solution. This is highly subjective as different people will approach problems in their own way and make their own leaps of intuition. So what was hard to me may be easy to someone else.

One can find, however, that there are certain puzzles that "seem" hard on their face. The 24 cube, given how many pieces are permuted each turn, seems like it will be very hard (I won't know until I get around to trying...). On the other hand the Pyraminx Crystal wasn't hard at all (building on a Megaminx corner solution), and it's face turns permute quite a bit of the puzzle. It just happens there is a very short and simple (and not hard to discover) sequence to move a small set of pieces.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:06 pm 
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Face-Turning Octahedron. The turning is hard and the centres are unbelievably hard to permutate, I can only get the corners and most of the edges in place. :?


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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:11 pm 
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I have yet to see a twisty puzzle that I'd consider a really hard puzzle. Most mentioned on this list can be solved from scratch by pure logic, without even any exploratory playing with sequences.

Meffert's Bandage Cube maybe comes close, because for the most part you can't really use any standard approaches to solve it. Jumbling puzzles have a bit of the same issue.

But -- I haven't tried the Golden Cube.

DragonCuber wrote:
Face-Turning Octahedron.

Especially, I'm really puzzled why so many very smart people find this at all challenging. There's a very simple center 3-cycle, which is perhaps hiding in a bit of a blind spot.


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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:29 pm 
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Are there any puzzles made from pure diamond? lol.

Oh wait.

Image

But yeah, FTO was the hardest for me this year.


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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:12 pm 
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bhearn wrote:
DragonCuber wrote:
Face-Turning Octahedron.
Especially, I'm really puzzled why so many very smart people find this at all challenging. There's a very simple center 3-cycle, which is perhaps hiding in a bit of a blind spot.
Yeah I totally agree with you here. The FTO is one of the easiest puzzles. I can't think of another puzzle where the corners can be solved via luck and there is a simple non-pure routine that can be used (sometimes with a slice setup move) to solve the entire rest of the puzzle.

Your avatar reminds me though -- 2.1.1 is one of the more challenging face-turning puzzles out there.

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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:11 am 
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bhearn wrote:
DragonCuber wrote:
Face-Turning Octahedron.

Especially, I'm really puzzled why so many very smart people find this at all challenging. There's a very simple center 3-cycle, which is perhaps hiding in a bit of a blind spot.


Ah, I never use cycles when I solve puzzles; that's probably why it's escaped me!

I suppose it's a case of you either get it, or you don't. (Plus, I've always preferred the vertex turning octahedron myself :lol: )


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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:34 am 
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The Astrolabacus, Rubik's Shells, and Brainball, and bandage cube are all very difficult. The Unscrambled would really take the cake if it were mass produced though.


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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:36 pm 
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Golden Cube.
Crazy4II I'm yet to solve.

Paulo


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 Post subject: Re: hardest puzzles ever (2010)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:11 am 
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RoboticFresca wrote:
Are there any puzzles made from pure diamond? lol.

Oh wait.

Image

But yeah, FTO was the hardest for me this year.

For sure, that puzzle is the hardest on Earth, or at least my wallet seems to think so :lol: :lol: :lol: sad thing is, the owner of that jewel probably never even bothered to scramble it :|

The FTO is not that hard to solve, first you solve the corners using a basic Skewb method, then you only need to learn two 3-cycle algorithms, one for permuting the edges and one for permuting the triangle centers.

Personally speaking, I also believe that the Helicopter Cube will give most puzzlers a good run for their money. I ordered the 'copter twins from Meffert's. I wonder how much time will pass before a solution gets posted on Jaap's Puzzle Page. 8-)

But the easiest puzzle of all (besides obvious non-twisting puzzles such as the 1x1x1 cube) is the Rainbow Cube. It is the only puzzle I know of that doesn't require messing up the parts you've already solved, and the last layer practically solves itself :wink:

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