After my 10 segment cheese I wanted to see if I cam make a 2 layer version of it. Ели is the name of the girl who chose the shape of pentagonal antiprism. This contains the entire 1 layer version inside as the first shell. I experimented with PLA plastic this time and result is not bad. The problem is the equatorial cut have to be very well aligned to turn so thats a problem I have to solve in the future. Due to some strange property of FDM printing I made it big to get cheaper to print. Edge length is 60 mm.


VIDEO

Looks Good! How hard is it to solve and how do you solve it?

Cuberific wrote:Looks Good! How hard is it to solve and how do you solve it?

I haven't solved it yet(I just finished building it). But I presume it will be more intuitive then the 1 layer version because of 1 more degree of freedom. You can try it on pCubes. Open Gregs Prisminx Crystal and ignore the middle layer.

Great! I'm glad the puzzle turned out that well!

In the video, I saw you only turned it so a triangle was opposite one of the trapezes, then turned it 180 degree. If you turn it so a trapeze is opposite another trapeze, could you make one of the 180 degree turns?

Cuberific wrote:In the video, I saw you only turned it so a triangle was opposite one of the trapezes, then turned it 180 degree. If you turn it so a trapeze is opposite another trapeze, could you make one of the 180 degree turns?

No, you can't make that move. The puzzle should be in it's pentagonal antiprism shape to work.
Actually, I explored your idea, but it turned out to not be possible or at least I can't do it. You can see what I did here - http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopi ... =9&t=31022 near the end of the topic
Maybe you can give your opinion on how this can be done. A Knucklehead mech maybe?

Neat idea! I couldn't resist rendering it

Cool . You got a lot of new shapes there. I have to explore your app for my next project.

The romanized version of ЕЛИ is ELI, true?
You guessed it: I need it for the museum.

Andreas Nortmann wrote:The romanized version of ЕЛИ is ELI, true?
You guessed it: I need it for the museum.

Yes! ELI
I guess you will also need the weight - 320 grams
But surprise - print cost - 35 euros O.0
I guess it will be a usefull stat.

I have to admit there is already a better version of this by JackRTully
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9v9jl9eMr8

That is what I was dreaming to do but my little experience didn't allow me

jiroscop wrote:I have to admit there is already a better version of this by JackRTully
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9v9jl9eMr8

That is what I was dreaming to do but my little experience didn't allow me

My design has added functionality, however you have an actual physical puzzle so who is to say who's is better (Thanks for the acknowledgement though )

What is this functionality? Is it the shapeshifting so it can be solved by blind people?

The faces can turn in increments of 36 degrees instead of 72 degrees.

JackRTully wrote:The faces can turn in increments of 36 degrees instead of 72 degrees.

That is a compleatly different thing then. We should see it in action.

jiroscop wrote:I guess you will also need the weight - 320 grams

Thank you again. After you mentioned the size I thought you don't have a scale.

JackRTully wrote:however you have an actual physical puzzle so who is to say who's is better

Just to remind everybody: Only the first physical sample counts for the museum.

Lovely puzzle! It utilizes the antiprism shape so efficiently!




Pantazis

Can my puzzle be classified as fully functional if it can not turn on every apparent cut line like JackRTully's puzzle is?
And an idea for you JackRTully. A shape preserving solid for your mechanism is the decagonal dipyramid and it looks nice too

Is a half-turn cube fully functional? I ask, because this puzzle sounds like it is to the 10-slice, 2-layer cheese as the half-turn cube is to the normal cube, or per haps more accurately, as the half-turn 2*2*2 would be to the 4-slice, 2-layer cheese.

Granted, this is a case of a physical puzzle with such a, for lack of a better word, restriction being made before the unrestricted version. I'm not sure that's been done before. Though, the restriction also makes the puzzle doctrinaire instead of shape-shifting, and I'm not sure we've ever had a pentagonal anti-prism as the shape of a doctrinaire puzzle before.

And now, I kind of want a restricted UFO shapemodded into an Octahedron(view as a trigonal anti-prism) and a restricted Masterball shapedmodded to a square anti-prism(or maybe a snub square anti prism).

You are right Jeffery. I didn't find any shape preserving pentagonal or square antiprisms in the museum. Triangualar is a special case
As for your design chalange for triangular and square versions it will be interesting for me to try and do them.

I build puzzle-script for pCubes
http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopi ... 12#p360512

jiroscop wrote:You are right Jeffery. I didn't find any shape preserving pentagonal or square antiprisms in the museum. Triangualar is a special case
As for your design chalange for triangular and square versions it will be interesting for me to try and do them.

two Square-Antiprism in Museum (also available in pCubes)
http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pkey=5280
http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pkey=2376

grigr wrote:I build puzzle-script for pCubes
http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopi ... 12#p360512

Thanks, grigr!

And a quick render of the triangular one

I got some progress in the solving of this puzzle. I realized it's a cuboid style puzzle and adapted the algorithms that I use to move around the corners of a 3x3x2. And since the pieces have orbits and the 2 piece types don't mix with each other - it's 2 puzzles in 1 and you solve them separately.

jiroscop wrote: And a quick render of the triangular one

Very Interest

grigr wrote:

jiroscop wrote: And a quick render of the triangular one

Very Interest

I cracked the mechanism of a square version also(hard geometry). Maybe that should be my next project

I like the 8-segment square antipsrim. Is it also shape-preserving?

gal_eon wrote:I like the 8-segment square antipsrim. Is it also shape-preserving?

I decided I would make it shapeshifting. And now I know how thanks to JackRTully
That way I will have 2 puzzles in 1 and I don't have to print again the non restricted version. If I want I can preserve the shape very easily just by aligning the triangles in every equator move.

I don't follow the discussion of shape-preserving here. As far as I can tell, none of these antiprism designs would be shape preserving. The axis geometry for these is that of a face-turning prism but the shape geometry is that of an antiprism.

The turning the horizontal cut (dihedral cut) by (1/(2*n)) doesn't preserve shape. Neither does a 180 degree turn of one of the one of the prism's side-face cuts.

You'd have to shape-mod these into either a n-gon prism or an n-gon bipyramid to preserve shape.

I build Square Antiprism
http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopi ... 51#p360751

Brandon, the puzzle in the original post is shape preserving. That was a mistake in the design. I wanted something like the cheese block but the way I cut the outside pieces I made them two different types

Next I wanted a shape that better suits this mechanism and found out that a pentagonal antiprism would not change its shape if I make it like this.

It is a two layer version of Gregs Prisminx Crystal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh1IX5zklXA

Ohh I see Brandon was talking about the square version. Yes that is impossible preserve shape I didn't even tested it. I tested the triangular and it was working so I presumed the same for the square. I feel stupid

grigr wrote:I build Square Antiprism

very similar on my puzzle Square 3D
http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pkey=3968

I build Triangular Antiprism
http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopi ... 61#p360761

Thinking about it some, for the antiprism series mentioned her:

For n odd:
Lateral cuts go through a vertex/edge-midpoint line on both bases and thus preserve the shape.
The geometry is simple aside from the equatorial cut.

For n even:
Lateral cuts go through vertex/vertex lines on one base and edge-midpoint/edge-midpoint lines on the other base, and thus cause shape shifting.
The geometry is complex.

Does this offer any insight into why some cheeses are simple while others are complex?

But something else I realized:
For two layer simple cheeses, an unrestricted equatorial cut makes the geometry complex(the simplest mechanism I know of involves a hidden middle layer and fusing one exterior piece to the middle layer), but restricting the equatorial cut so it preserves the shape of an anti-prism actually keeps the geometry simple! Just take the single layer cheese and cut it in half with a circular dovetail around the equator.

For the benefit of anyone who missed the simple vs complex discussion from a few months ago:
These are two, somewhat agreed on, categories for dividing deep cut puzzles based on mechanism.
Simple geometries can be built with simple dovetail mechanisms.
Complex geometries, if built with simple dovetails either result in male-male collisions blocking desired moves or female-female collisions causing the puzzle to fall apart. Some require a hidden middle layer or skirting rails while others require impractical numbers of shells.

That description is probably oversimplified and I probably got some things wrong(more knowledgeable people, please correct me), but that should give you the gist.

Yes, I did read the simple vs complex discussion. Fun fact - my pentagonal antiprism uses 5 screws, but if I want to build the square version it will use 8 screws.
Here is a clearer video of the available moves and how the shape is preserved
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiJ6dXHxk6A

After breaking in cheese slices work like a charm now. In order to have a nice solve experience I need a flat surface for the equatorial cut. Here is a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCFhxDFzvK0

I saw an interest in mechanism renders so I made some of the Antiprism. You can also see why the puzzle was restricted in only non-shapeshifting moves